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Why Did Jesus Have to Die?

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  • Why Did Jesus Have to Die?

    This is something I have never understood, so I am wondering if anyone can help me. There are plenty of glib answers, such as "it was part of God's plan", but that just raises the question of why it was part of God's plan. Why did God engineer the world so that Jesus' death did what it did? Many web sites purport to address this, but none I have found give any illumination.

    https://www.gci.org/disc/07-whydie
    Jesus said, “The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many” (Matthew 20:28). He came to give his life, to die, and his death would result in salvation for others. This was the reason he came to earth. His blood was poured out for others (Matthew 26:28).

    Okay... But who was this ransom paid to? To God! So God sacrificed himself to pay a ransom that God demanded from himself. Does that actually make sense to anyone?

    https://carm.org/christianity/christ...e-die-our-sins
    The reason Jesus had to die for our sins was so that we could be forgiven and go to be with the Lord. Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1 ,14; Col. 2:9), and only God can satisfy the Law requirements of a perfect life and perfect sacrifice that cleanses us of our sins.

    According to this web page, God was only able to forgive us if he first sacrificed himself. I can forgive people without anyone dying, but apparently God cannot. And he is the one who is all-powerful. If you are going to assert that it is different for God, do please say how. And why!

    I will add this one too as a great illustration of not answering the question.
    http://www.bethinking.org/jesus/why-...e-on-the-cross
    My Blog: http://oncreationism.blogspot.co.uk/

  • #2
    This should be fun.

    Comment


    • #3
      Jesus became Incarnate and died so that, in the resurrection, he could show that death had been defeated.

      From the Paschal homily of St. John Chrysostom:
      Source: homily

      Let no one fear death, for the Saviour’s death has set us free.
      He that was taken by death has annihilated it! He descended into hades and took hades captive! He embittered it when it tasted his flesh! And anticipating this Isaiah exclaimed, “Hades was embittered when it encountered thee in the lower regions.” It was embittered, for it was abolished! It was embittered, for it was mocked! It was embittered, for it was purged! It was embittered, for it was despoiled! It was embittered, for it was bound in chains!
      It took a body and, face to face, met God! It took earth and encountered heaven! It took what it saw but crumbled before what it had not seen! “O death, where is thy sting? O hades, where is thy victory?” Christ is risen, and you are overthrown! Christ is risen, and the demons are fallen! Christ is risen, and the angels rejoice! Christ is risen, and life reigns! Christ is risen, and not one dead remains in a tomb! For Christ, being raised from the dead, has become the First-fruits of them that slept.

      © Copyright Original Source



      A ransom is typically paid to the one holding others captive - which would be Satan, not God. In a sense, Satan got paid, but couldn't handle the payment.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
      sigpic
      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        Jesus became Incarnate and died so that, in the resurrection, he could show that death had been defeated.

        From the Paschal homily of St. John Chrysostom:
        Source: homily

        Let no one fear death, for the Saviour’s death has set us free.
        He that was taken by death has annihilated it! He descended into hades and took hades captive! He embittered it when it tasted his flesh! And anticipating this Isaiah exclaimed, “Hades was embittered when it encountered thee in the lower regions.” It was embittered, for it was abolished! It was embittered, for it was mocked! It was embittered, for it was purged! It was embittered, for it was despoiled! It was embittered, for it was bound in chains!
        It took a body and, face to face, met God! It took earth and encountered heaven! It took what it saw but crumbled before what it had not seen! “O death, where is thy sting? O hades, where is thy victory?” Christ is risen, and you are overthrown! Christ is risen, and the demons are fallen! Christ is risen, and the angels rejoice! Christ is risen, and life reigns! Christ is risen, and not one dead remains in a tomb! For Christ, being raised from the dead, has become the First-fruits of them that slept.

        © Copyright Original Source



        A ransom is typically paid to the one holding others captive - which would be Satan, not God. In a sense, Satan got paid, but couldn't handle the payment.
        You realize this is just a bait thread, right? He doesn't really care.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          Jesus became Incarnate and died so that, in the resurrection, he could show that death had been defeated.

          From the Paschal homily of St. John Chrysostom:
          Source: homily

          Let no one fear death, for the Saviour’s death has set us free.
          He that was taken by death has annihilated it! He descended into hades and took hades captive! He embittered it when it tasted his flesh! And anticipating this Isaiah exclaimed, “Hades was embittered when it encountered thee in the lower regions.” It was embittered, for it was abolished! It was embittered, for it was mocked! It was embittered, for it was purged! It was embittered, for it was despoiled! It was embittered, for it was bound in chains!
          It took a body and, face to face, met God! It took earth and encountered heaven! It took what it saw but crumbled before what it had not seen! “O death, where is thy sting? O hades, where is thy victory?” Christ is risen, and you are overthrown! Christ is risen, and the demons are fallen! Christ is risen, and the angels rejoice! Christ is risen, and life reigns! Christ is risen, and not one dead remains in a tomb! For Christ, being raised from the dead, has become the First-fruits of them that slept.

          © Copyright Original Source



          A ransom is typically paid to the one holding others captive - which would be Satan, not God. In a sense, Satan got paid, but couldn't handle the payment.
          What about the honor-shame principle? That Jesus died a shameful death to make up for our shameful acts? I know the last sentence is an oversimplification(maybe) of jpholding's argument at his website.
          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Adrift View Post
            You realize this is just a bait thread, right? He doesn't really care.
            That's why I'm not telling Pixie. I'm talking to other Christians and reasonable Christians only about the answer to Pixie's "question". Let's just say Pixie has a poor track record of being a baiter and not an honest seeker.
            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

            Comment


            • #7
              To OneBadPig and any other Christian, what do y'all think of this vid? Since I am not trying to make an argument, fundy atheists should not watch this video! Or anyone that would take offense. That means Pixie should not attept watching this video. Because I am not going to give him any calcium carbonate spheres.
              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

              Comment


              • #8
                CS Lewis

                We are told that Christ was killed for us, that His death has washed out our sins, and that by dying He disabled death itself. That is the formula. That is Christianity. That is what has to be believed. Any theories we build up as to how Christ's death did all this are, in my view, quite secondary: mere plans or diagrams to be left alone if they do not help us, and, even if they do help us, not to be confused with the thing itself. All the same, some of these theories are worth looking at.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Pixie View Post
                  Okay... But who was this ransom paid to? To God! So God sacrificed himself to pay a ransom that God demanded from himself. Does that actually make sense to anyone?
                  Jesus' death makes some sense to me if Jesus isn't God. But although that line of thinking seems to me to be compatible with the Bible, it's not allowed under Christianity.
                  Last edited by Yttrium; 04-21-2015, 10:14 AM.
                  Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                    But although that line of thinking seems to me to be compatible with the Bible . . .
                    It's not.
                    ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                      It's not.
                      Yeah, you would say that, you Christian you.
                      Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                        What about the honor-shame principle? That Jesus died a shameful death to make up for our shameful acts? I know the last sentence is an oversimplification(maybe) of jpholding's argument at his website.
                        That could help explain why his death was shameful.
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                        sigpic
                        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The Pixie View Post
                          I can forgive people without anyone dying,
                          That's because you make your own meaning. You invest importance in other gestures, rituals, ideas, etc. Personally I might forgive someone if I knew they felt a little shame or regret, but I'm not an omniscient super-being. I can only see a few feet in front of me by candlelight when it comes to the impact/importance of good and evil. I can't see how the results of an action ripple outward through the ages, permanently affecting everything and everyone around me, visible and invisible, until the end of time. God, who wrote the setting we all live in, suggests that something dying and spilling its blood is an appropriate representation of the situation's gravity. Given that he's the architect of the universe, including the minds of every living thing, it's kind of futile to disagree. When I make my own universe I'll probably just require running laps or something but I'm not that holy so offending me is not really a big deal.
                          "Some people feel guilty about their anxieties and regard them as a defect of faith but they are afflictions, not sins. Like all afflictions, they are, if we can so take them, our share in the passion of Christ." - That Guy Everyone Quotes

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                            You realize this is just a bait thread, right? He doesn't really care.
                            Could be. On the other hand, many Christians do believe in accordance with the points he's raising, and that should be corrected.
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                            sigpic
                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                              Yeah, you would say that, you Christian you.
                              Because it's true.
                              ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

                              Comment

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