Christians Believing Badly

[jordanriver]

That's absolutely correct. According to the bible, God let Thomas know.



I question a lot. So did the disciples.

AND God let them know, flesh and blood didn't reveal it

[whag]

AND God let them know, flesh and blood didn't reveal it

Exactly.

[Adrift]

Not at all. You know what he means, so clarify it for him.

What? I've never seen this paragraph in my life before you posted it here. How should I know what he means?

[whag]

What? I've never seen this paragraph in my life before you posted it here. How should I know what he means?

Because you can read and you think I'm way off.

[Adrift]

Because you can read and you think I'm way off.

I didn't say you're way off, I said that it appears that you're conjecturing because you can't seem to show where Plantinga refers to "subhuman species" and "Adam's spirit".

[whag]

I didn't say you're way off, I said that it appears that you're conjecturing because you can't seem to show where Plantinga refers to "subhuman species" and "Adam's spirit".

I'd call it inference, not conjecture. With the image imprint came the spirit, I inferred. The enspirited ape becomes higher than the spiritless hominid having the image of God. This is all reasonable inference not baseless conjecture.

[Tassman]

ok, I googled, and in my books found nariokatome boy over a million years, closest to modern humans that is not us,
H heidelbergensis over half a million year, Neanderthals 200,000 but extinct now.......


but

where did you get that exact 200,000 year number

I carefully said each time: c.200,000 yearshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatomically_modern_humans

&

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/...s/homo-sapiens

&

http://anthropology.ua.edu/bindon/an...opics/Homo.pdf


So where and when during this anthropological process, which is virtually undoubted by science, did God breathe his spirit into "Adam" and transform him from advanced Ape into Man made in His image?

[Tassman]

Image of God implies those pre-Adam human beings didn't have God's image. That phrase means more than surface appearance but actual cognition, behaviors, and relational capabilities (that we clearly had way before 200,000). Can we have the image of God without spirit?

Also, I think our million year-old ancestors had many positive virtues that got them "to Eden," as it were, meaning they didn't need to be imprinted.

Properly directed affections is interesting language. Who's doing the directing here?

I'm sorry whag, this comes across as conjecture seemingly based upon little more than the urge to rationalize the Adam & Eve story in order to harmonize it with contradictory scientific knowledge.

[jordanriver]

I carefully said each time: c.200,000 yearshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatomically_modern_humans

&

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/...s/homo-sapiens

&

http://anthropology.ua.edu/bindon/an...opics/Homo.pdf


So where and when during this anthropological process, which is virtually undoubted by science, did God breathe his spirit into "Adam" and transform him from advanced Ape into Man made in His image?

well, I just reached behind me, a book I cited back in October
PRINCIPLES OF HUMAN EVOLUTION 2003 Roger Lewin, Robert A. Foley ISBN 0632047046
and on page 375 there seems to be a problem with the Omo finds, a little dispute about "provenance"

I don't feel like typing this , this late, so I just whip out the ole smart phone and pic it
page 375 priciples of human evolution.jpg

[whag]

I'm sorry whag, this comes across as conjecture seemingly based upon little more than the urge to rationalize the Adam & Eve story in order to harmonize it with contradictory scientific knowledge.

Assuming God chose two hominids among thousands to infuse with spirit is presumptive to the extreme. I'd call that conjecture, not inference.

Assuming that Plantinga thought the hominid stock from which the first couple was pulled was "less than human" (because they lacked the image of God) isn't presumptive to the extreme. That's just inferring that the non-divinely imprinted hominids were lower than the divine image bearers.

[37818]

As a Christian, I for one, believe both humans and animals have bodies, souls and spirit. The chief difference being humans are made in God's image. [Having the given ability to design and understand design.]

[whag]

Hominids who lived 1,000,000 years ago made hand axes. They understood design.

[jordanriver]

birds and beavers make tools

[whag]

birds and beavers make tools

Touche.

[37818]

birds and beavers make tools

For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

And they design them first.