So Easy To Be An Atheist!

[JimL]

But Doug, tell me exactly what you disagree with in the definition:

Existential nihilism: is the philosophical theory that life has no intrinsic meaning or value. With respect to the universe, existential nihilism suggests that a single human or even the entire human species is insignificant, without purpose and unlikely to change in the totality of existence. According to the theory, each individual is an isolated being born into the universe, barred from knowing "why", yet compelled to invent meaning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_nihilism

If the meaning and purpose of your existence is from god, then you have no meaning or purpose. For what purpose and meaning does god exist?

[seer]

Please point out the part of ANY response that I made that leads to this conclusion.

Oh, so you do believe there can be perversions of our sexual abilities? Since there is no design in your world for human sexuality, logically, how can there be a perversion of use? Like you said if you use a hammer for a paper weight it is not a perversion of design. So how can child rape be a perversion of our sexual abilities.

And just so we are clear:

Perversion:the alteration of something from its original course, meaning, or state to a distortion or corruption of what was first intended.

[JimL]

Oh, so you do believe there can be perversions of our sexual abilities? Since there is no design in your world for human sexuality, logically, how can there be a perversion of use? Like you said if you use a hammer for a paper weight it is not a perversion of design. So how can child rape be a perversion of our sexual abilities.

And just so we are clear:

Perversion:the alteration of something from its original course, meaning, or state to a distortion or corruption of what was first intended.

Are hermaphrodites designed for a purpose, seer?

[seer]

Are hermaphrodites designed for a purpose, seer?

Jim you know that we believe that we are a fallen race, and that effects psychology as well as biology (deformities). That however does not change God's intent or design for human sexuality. Of course in your world there can be no perversions of sexual abilities since there is no design or purpose for those abilities.

[carpedm9587]

Oh, so you do believe there can be perversions of our sexual abilities?

I haven't said anything about "perversion" in any respect.

Since there is no design in your world for human sexuality, logically, how can there be a perversion of use?

The word "perversion" has two meanings. One is generic: "the alteration of something from its original course, meaning, or state to a distortion or corruption of what was first intended." By that definition, my use of a hammer to situate electrical boxes is a "perversion." It's not one that keeps me awake at night. Indeed, I am not particularly bothered by someone deciding to use something in a way other than it was intended.

The second definition is "sexual behavior or desire that is considered abnormal or unacceptable." That definition has nothing to do with "intention" or "design" and has everything to do with norms, especially moral ones.

And I'm NOT going around that horn with you again - unless you actually (finally) have an argument that isn't one of the three "techniques."

Like you said if you use a hammer for a paper weight it is not a perversion of design. So how can child rape be a perversion of our sexual abilities.

And just so we are clear:

Perversion:the alteration of something from its original course, meaning, or state to a distortion or corruption of what was first intended.

See my answer above.

[seer]

I haven't said anything about "perversion" in any respect.

You certainly implied it when I said: So you don't see the rape of children as a perversion of our sexual abilities?

Then you said: Please point out the part of ANY response that I made that leads to this conclusion.

So again, is child rape a perversion of our sexual abilities?

The word "perversion" has two meanings. One is generic: "the alteration of something from its original course, meaning, or state to a distortion or corruption of what was first intended." By that definition, my use of a hammer to situate electrical boxes is a "perversion." It's not one that keeps me awake at night. Indeed, I am not particularly bothered by someone deciding to use something in a way other than it was intended.

Right, and that is the definition I was using in the context of our discussion, which was about purpose and design. And in your example of the hammer. So in that case child rape is no perversion of use - correct?.

[carpedm9587]

You certainly implied it when I said: So you don't see the rape of children as a perversion of our sexual abilities?

Then you said: Please point out the part of ANY response that I made that leads to this conclusion.

So again, is child rape a perversion of our sexual abilities?

So you add the word "perversion," which does not appear in any of my posts, and somehow I implied perversion?

Most people see "child rape" as a "perversion" under the second term of the definition. I see it as "perversion" because it robs a child of what should be an innocent upbringing.

Right, and that is the definition I was using in the context of our discussion, which was about purpose and design. And in your example of the hammer. So in that case child rape is no perversion of use - correct?.

Since life/evolution have no objective "purpose" or "design," perversions of said purpose or design is not possible. Perversion is only measured against the moral norm.

[Tassman]

Jim you know that we believe that we are a fallen race, and that effects psychology as well as biology (deformities).

That however does not change God's intent or design for human sexuality. Of course in your world there can be no perversions of sexual abilities since there is no design or purpose for those abilities.

[seer]

So you add the word "perversion," which does not appear in any of my posts, and somehow I implied perversion?

No Carp I added the word prevision, in the context of our discussion about design. And when I suggested that you did not see child rape as a perversion our sexual abilities you balked. It is obvious that you don't.

Most people see "child rape" as a "perversion" under the second term of the definition. I see it as "perversion" because it robs a child of what should be an innocent upbringing.

I was not asking about bare assertion or opinion (collective or otherwise), our discussion was in the context of purpose or design.

[Doug Shaver]

Well given your ideas about language there isn't much we can know about anything.

I think there is a pertinent distinction between epistemology and the philosophy of language.

[carpedm9587]

No Carp I added the word prevision, in the context of our discussion about design. And when I suggested that you did not see child rape as a perversion our sexual abilities you balked. It is obvious that you don't.

You are free to make any assumption you wish. Child rape is not a "perversion" by the first definition, because there is no evidence that humanity is at is is by "intent" - so there is no "design" or "purpose" at work. There is merely function.

Child rape is broadly seen (by me and most others) as a perversion by the second definition of the term, as noted in my previous post.

I was not asking about bare assertion or opinion (collective or otherwise), our discussion was in the context of purpose or design.

You cannot "pervert" a "purpose" or "design" that doesn't exist, so only the second definition applies. Whether or not you like it is not my concern.

[seer]

I think there is a pertinent distinction between epistemology and the philosophy of language.

That helps, not...

[Doug Shaver]

That helps, not...

I guess that settles it, then.

[JimL]

Jim you know that we believe that we are a fallen race, and that effects psychology as well as biology (deformities).

Yes, I know that you believe that amongst all animals you are special in the eyes of a creator god and that because the first man, Adam, disobeyed him, the sin of being imperfect was inherited by all mankind. It couldn't be though, do you think, that the human species are just naturally imperfect beings in the first place and that disobedience to a god has nothing to do with it? And btw, how did you come to incorporate biology such as human deformities into the mix. Is that biblical, or did you just make that up because you can't incorporate hermaphrodites into your "designed by god" scheme?

That however does not change God's intent or design for human sexuality.

So Adam is responsible for the existence of hermaphrodites?

Of course in your world there can be no perversions of sexual abilities since there is no design or purpose for those abilities.

There is design, but it is not the design of a creator god, it is natural, just like sexual orientation and hermaphrodites are natural. Apparently the mind doesn't always orientate with the body which is not something you can see with your eyes.

[seer]

You are free to make any assumption you wish. Child rape is not a "perversion" by the first definition, because there is no evidence that humanity is at is is by "intent" - so there is no "design" or "purpose" at work. There is merely function.

Right, in your world it is not a perversion of use.

Child rape is broadly seen (by me and most others) as a perversion by the second definition of the term, as noted in my previous post.

I was looking for a logical argument, not bare assertion or opinion, and not an argument from the majority. If there is a design or purpose then logically there can be a perversion of use.