Atheism irrefutable.

[shunyadragon]

Sigh, it's yet another trick - they are now using your logic but renaming God. Shuny is calling Him 'natural law'.

Him? No. First I do not believe God is a Him. I am only arguing that Natural Law is possibly an eternal cause of cause and effect outcomes in our physical existence, which is a valid possibility.

[shunyadragon]

A cause to be a cause is finite and temporal. An atemporal infinite cause in order to cause a thing in time would have to also be temporal.

This is an assumption on your part and a bit confusing. Natural Law is not a thing that would be temporal. Natural Law by its nature is an atemporal cause not effected by by time.

Infinite would have to be modulated to finite to cause something finite.

A cause that is atemporal is neither infinite nor finite. By the evidence Natural Law is the cause of everything known without regard to time.

An uncaused cause is both eternal and finite. Eternal in that it would have always been finite and temporal. The eternal Son of God was both not God being "with God" and God being that He "was God." John 1:1-2. And He is the uncaused cause in that anything made was not made apart from Him (John 1:3).

An assumption based on a religious agenda, and a bit confusing. IF God exists, God would be atemporal without regard to time nor space, as is Natural Law.

[crepuscule]

A cause to be a cause is finite and temporal. An atemporal infinite cause in order to cause a thing in time would have to also be temporal.

Infinite would have to be modulated to finite to cause something finite.

An uncaused cause is both eternal and finite. Eternal in that it would have always been finite and temporal. The eternal Son of God was both not God being "with God" and God being that He "was God." John 1:1-2. And He is the uncaused cause in that anything made was not made apart from Him (John 1:3).

More unsupported assumptions. Why would an uncaused cause, eternal/finite or not, be God?

[Teallaura]

Him? No. First I do not believe God is a Him. I am only arguing that Natural Law is possibly an eternal cause of cause and effect outcomes in our physical existence, which is a valid possibility.

It's just pushing the 'God did it' to 'natural law did it' - it really is just a redressing.

Even funnier version occurs apparently in quantum gravity.

[Teallaura]

More unsupported assumptions. Why would an uncaused cause, eternal/finite or not, be God?

Why wouldn't it be? Shuny is making a similar line with the redressing he does - but it's now really necessary to redress naturalism to make it look like God - but not really be God.

The uncaused Cause is a theist argument - since God is already stated to be eternal (per Scripture) He already fits these criteria.

I'm reminded of a physicist who, rather dejectedly, admitted that having climbed to the pinnacle of cosmology physics found theology already there (highly paraphrased).

[shunyadragon]

Do you know of an actual non-temporal non-finite effect? As far as I know, finite and temporal effects are caused by a finite and temporal cause.

It would be an atemporal cause not effected by Time. The ultimate natural law(s)s are not effected nor limited by time nor space. They always apply regardless time nor space.

Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atemporal

atemoral - independent of or unaffected by time

© Copyright Original Source

God would be a temporal.

[37818]

It would be an atemporal cause not effected by Time. The ultimate natural law(s)s are not effected nor limited by time nor space. They always apply regardless time nor space.

Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atemporal

atemoral - independent of or unaffected by time

© Copyright Original Source

God would be a temporal.

That makes no sense. And you did not give any example of any non-temporal effect.

[shunyadragon]

That makes no sense. And you did not give any example of any non-temporal effect.

The effects of Gravity are independent and not limited to place nor in time, and is an atemporal law of nature.

atemoral - independent of or unaffected by time

[crepuscule]

Why wouldn't it be?

Shuny is making a similar line with the redressing he does - but it's now really necessary to redress naturalism to make it look like God - but not really be God.

which all understand to be God

The uncaused Cause is a theist argument - since God is already stated to be eternal (per Scripture) He already fits these criteria.

[37818]

The effects of Gravity are independent and not limited to place nor in time, and is an atemporal law of nature.

atemoral - independent of or unaffected by time

Gravity is temporal. Having units of space, mass and time.

[Tassman]

It's just pushing the 'God did it' to 'natural law did it' - it really is just a redressing.

[shunyadragon]

Gravity is temporal. Having units of space, mass and time.

The effects of gravity have units in theory and are temporal (in time). Gravity is not a 'thing' and is in and of itself atemporal. Time does not effect gravity as defined.

atemporal - independent of or unaffected by time

By definition you have to demonstrate how time effects gravity.

[37818]

The effects of gravity have units in theory and are temporal (in time). Gravity is not a 'thing' and is in and of itself atemporal. Time does not effect gravity as defined.

atemporal - independent of or unaffected by time

By definition you have to demonstrate how time effects gravity.

Does mass increase in a gravitational field? m' = m / sqr( 1 - 2GM/(rc²))

[shunyadragon]

Does mass increase in a gravitational field? m' = m / sqr( 1 - 2GM/(rc²))

You tell me, your making up a trick question.

The question is whether gravity is temporal or atemporal. The bottom line is gravity is into influenced nor effected by time. It is atemporal.

[37818]

You tell me, your making up a trick question.

The question is whether gravity is temporal or atemporal. The bottom line is gravity is into influenced nor effected by time. It is atemporal.

Mass is increased in a gravitational field. Gravity, the law of gravity is temporal. Two masses are greater than their sum, by the amount of GMm/(rc²).