Could God reincarnate humans if he wanted to?

[Charles]

You're making an argument based on the headings inserted by a particular set of translators. I must admit, I've never seen anyone do that before. It's not an approach likely to be taken seriously.

Nope, I am not basing my argument on that alone and if you think so you have simply failed to understand my points.

What characterizes these people? They are calling the Lord their Lord. It simply makes no sense and it seems contrary to the Bible to claim these people don't believe. They are doing prophecies and insist it must be in the name of the Lord. They drive out demons and do so in the name of the Lord (or at least they think so). They even perform miracles and do so in the name of the Lord (or at least they think so). The most likely interpretation seems to be the one that these people believe they are actually doing the right thing. How else would you interpret their frustration of being refused? Why would they call the Lord the Lord and so on?

If we read it from the perspective of NIV it makes a lot more sense. If you go for the approach that theyt know they are false the text really does not make much sense. If they know they are false why does the text say:

They are not only saying the word Lord they are saying it to the Lord. Take note of the exact wording: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven[...]"

[Mountain Man]

Debating MM often ends with him posting pictures or - as in this case - videos. If this is what he can come up with I think it is fair to say he did not have anything of importance or subsance to confront my points.

You're employing child's logic that you can "win" a debate by stubbornly refusing to give up a point that has been refuted until your opponent decides to stop wasting his time and just walks away.

This is me walking away.

"Bye..."

[Charles]

Personal attacks again. Let me remind you they don't cover up substance.

It certainly has implications for Christians. It has the implication that you cannot be saved by your actions alone. That is not setting the bar low but high.

[Charles]

You're employing child's logic that you can "win" a debate by stubbornly refusing to give up a point that has been refuted until your opponent decides to stop wasting his time and just walks away.

This is me walking away.

"Bye..."

I note the ad hominem fallacy and the straw man. And I note a lot of repeatedly unanswered questions and ignored points that you are trying to cover up with these fallacies.

[Cow Poke]

It has the implication that you cannot be saved by your actions alone.

That's correct - it's by grace through faith, not of works! Eph 2:8-9

[Charles]

That's correct - it's by grace through faith, not of works! Eph 2:8-9

Which is why it certainly is important. And "by grace" is not setting the bar low but high and so high it is actually out of reach.

[One Bad Pig]

Nope, I am not basing my argument on that alone and if you think so you have simply failed to understand my points.

Note from my response to MM that I am not in agreement with his assertion of its non-application to Christians. I think you are doing a fair amount of talking past each other. I suspect you're working with different definitions for "Christian" - which makes that all but inevitable.

[One Bad Pig]

Which is why it certainly is important. And "by grace" is not setting the bar low but high and so high it is actually out of reach.

It is only by grace that the bar can be met at all.

[Charles]

It is only by grace that the bar can be met at all.

That is how I read it too.

[rogue06]

Personal attacks again. Let me remind you they don't cover up substance.

It certainly has implications for Christians. It has the implication that you cannot be saved by your actions alone. That is not setting the bar low but high.

I think a far better argument can be made that grace essentially removes the bar. As the hymn Amazing Grace puts it

Amazing Grace! how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost, but now am found
Was blind but now I see
Through many dangers, toils, and snares
I have already come
'Tis grace that brought me safe thus far
And grace will lead me home
When we've been there ten thousand years
Bright, shining as the sun
We've no less days to sing God's praise
Than when we first begun
Amazing Grace! how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost, but now am found
Was blind but now I see
Was blind but now I see


The freely offered gift of grace is what makes salvation possible. All we have to do is accept it.

[Cow Poke]

Which is why it certainly is important. And "by grace" is not setting the bar low but high and so high it is actually out of reach.

Grace is "unmerited favor" -- Salvation is given FREELY to who will accept - it REMOVES the bar, not repositions it.

[Charles]

Grace is "unmerited favor" -- Salvation is given FREELY to who will accept - it REMOVES the bar, not repositions it.

Or someone else makes sure you pass through since it is impossible for yourself to obtion the justice it requires.

[Cow Poke]

Or someone else makes sure you pass through since it is impossible for yourself to obtion the justice it requires.

It doesn't require "justice" - Jesus presents us FAULTLESS to the Father, clothed in His own righteousness.

You REALLY don't get the concept of Grace. Or, are you just trolling?

[Charles]

It doesn't require "justice" - Jesus presents us FAULTLESS to the Father, clothed in His own righteousness.

You REALLY don't get the concept of Grace. Or, are you just trolling?

I am making the exact same point that you are making. It does not require justice on our side because Jesus died for our sins. The bar may not be there for us but that is only because someone else passed it on our behalf and we would be incapable of doing so ourselves. That is a very traditional Christian view on things. Not that I personally believe it is true but I see this as a point that is made in that verse.

I don't see how that is trolling, but perhaps we simply misunderstood each other.

[rogue06]

Grace is "unmerited favor" -- Salvation is given FREELY to who will accept - it REMOVES the bar, not repositions it.

Wish I woulda thought of that

I think a far better argument can be made that grace essentially removes the bar.