Which Would You Personally Prefer...

[JimL]

The universe is in evidence. The universe is in evidence of it being caused. Existence [uncaused] needs no evidence. And God is the [uncaused] Existence. Atheism is based on nothing except denial of evidence. Evidence is dependant on there being Existence.

Just saying stuff doesn't make it true 37818. The universe is evidence of nothing other than it's own existence. Whatever lies outside of our universe, if anything, is something you can have no knowledge of. Stop pretending that you know, or that by knowledge you came to that conclusion.

[37818]

every attempt to explain the doctrine of the Holy Trinity falls into heresy, because it is essentially contradictory in and of itself. Even the official explanation (the Athanasian Creed) only works because it contradicts itself every second clause, e.g.: "10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. 11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal......."

It's a riot.

First, one has to get the idea of who and what God Is. Second, one needs to understand the difference between existence and cause. An that is for starters.

[37818]

The universe is in evidence. The universe is in evidence of it being caused. Existence [uncaused] needs no evidence. And God is the [uncaused] Existence. Atheism is based on nothing except denial of evidence. Evidence is dependant on there being Existence.

[Tassman]

Originally Posted by 37818
Jim you can HERE.

Jim what you are failing to understand is God's omniscience.
For example God is fully aware of evey electron in the universe. Its state, place, spin etc. Everyone of them. So three Persons who are the One God is a small matter compared to God's infinite consciousness. Begin fully conscious of every electron. Think Jim.

[Tassman]

Tassman,
Sparko is not a modalist.

Sparko,
My understanding of "entity," an entity is any existing "thing." So "entities" do not all have to be of the same classification. So a "person" is a class of an entity, a "god" or "deity" is a class of entity. Where three entities are in fact the one entity.

So what definition of "entity" are you using?

every attempt to explain the doctrine of the Holy Trinity falls into heresy, because it is essentially contradictory in and of itself. Even the official explanation (the Athanasian Creed) only works because it contradicts itself every second clause, e.g.: "10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. 11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal......."

It's a riot.

[37818]

they are plural persons not entities. God is one God revealed in three distinct persons. Each person is fully God. One God, not three.

This is the heresy of 'Modalism', whereby God is only one person who reveals himself in different ways or modes, rather than three co-eternal persons within the Godhead. In the good ol' days you would have been burnt at the stake for this sin against orthodoxy.

Tassman,
Sparko is not a modalist.

Sparko,
My understanding of "entity," an entity is any existing "thing." So "entities" do not all have to be of the same classification. So a "person" is a class of an entity, a "god" or "deity" is a class of entity. Where three entities are in fact the one entity.

So what definition of "entity" are you using?

[JimL]

Jim you can HERE.

Jim what you are failing to understand is God's omniscience.
For example God is fully aware of evey electron in the universe. Its state, place, spin etc. Everyone of them. So three Persons who are the One God is a small matter compared to God's infinite consciousness. Begin fully conscious of every electron. Think Jim.

Don't change the subject my friend, it doesn't help you.

[37818]

So, 1 god, with 3 minds that are exactly the same. Seriously Sparko? We athiests are going to have to start our own Ultimate screwballs thread if you keep this up.

Jim you can HERE.

Jim what you are failing to understand is God's omniscience.
For example God is fully aware of evey electron in the universe. Its state, place, spin etc. Everyone of them. So three Persons who are the One God is a small matter compared to God's infinite consciousness. Begin fully conscious of every electron. Think Jim.

[JimL]

So, 1 god, with 3 minds that are exactly the same. Seriously Sparko? We athiests are going to have to start our own Ultimate screwballs thread if you keep this up.

[Tassman]

The Father. duh.

Jesus is talking to himself, is he? No doubt god-the-father and god-the-son had many good conversations together. So much to do: a universe to run, a self-sacrifice to plan for to appease his own wrath......etc etc etc.

[Sparko]

oh and so I don't have to repeat myself:

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post540334

[37818]

Do you not recognize your own contradictions as you type them out?

I had rephrased it right after I wrote it.

Does the term "person" mean "god?" No. Now God is a person (the Father).

Because you do misconstrue things.

Again, you make simple inexplicable assertions because you can not make logical sense of what you mean by those assertions.

Are you really that dense?

I didn't ask, . . .

Who knows where the holy ghost was at the time?

. . . but thanks anyway.

[Sparko]

You seem to be having a difficult time in answering the question directly, Sparko. When you say 3 persons, are you suggesting that god has 3 distinct minds that communicate with one another, or does god have one mind shared by 3 distinct persons? Was Jesus talking to himself, or was he talking to a distinct mind when questioning the Father?

[JimL]

The One God is revealed in three persons who are not the same person.
The Father is a person.
The Son is a person.
The Holy Spirit is a person.

The son is not the father or the holy spirit.
The father is not the son or the holy spirit.
The holy spirit is not the father or the son.

The Father is fully God.
The Son is fully God.
The Holy Spirit is fully God.

There is only one God.

You seem to be having a difficult time in answering the question directly, Sparko. When you say 3 persons, are you suggesting that god has 3 distinct minds that communicate with one another, or does god have one mind shared by 3 distinct persons? Was Jesus talking to himself, or was he talking to a distinct mind when questioning the Father?

[Sparko]

Right, so jesus wasn't talking to himself when questioning why he had been forsaken, correct? And btw, what do you mean by distinct? Are you saying that god has 3 separate minds, or is it just 1 mind and he is talking to himself?

The One God is revealed in three persons who are not the same person.
The Father is a person.
The Son is a person.
The Holy Spirit is a person.

The son is not the father or the holy spirit.
The father is not the son or the holy spirit.
The holy spirit is not the father or the son.

The Father is fully God.
The Son is fully God.
The Holy Spirit is fully God.

There is only one God.