Morality or Obedience?

[seer]

I would imagine the translators of the Bible know Greek a lot better than I do seeing as how I don't know it.

Running down the translations...

Depart

Go

Die

Leave this life

Strong showing for depart (the majority). I still think it should be interpreted as dying. For example...

When I depart this earth, I hope my family is taken care of.

That doesn't mean getting on a space ship and leaving...that means when I die.

If it was to be taken as a soul departing the body, wouldn't you need to say that to get that specific meaning?

But you are not departing this earth, you are just in the ground. And Paul did not just say he would depart, but to depart and be WITH CHRIST. BTW element, do you believe that God is material or immaterial?

[element771]

But you are not departing this earth, you are just in the ground. And Paul did not just say he would depart, but to depart and be WITH CHRIST.

I am departing the fallen earth and waking up in the remade earth with Christ or departing from this life to arrive in my new life with Christ.

BTW element, do you believe that God is material or immaterial?

immaterial

[element771]

They do if they believe the lies of other people or if they believe their own lies.

Tass,

You can't just make up your own definition for words. Words actually mean something.

A liar is one who lies and a lie is an an intentionally false statement.

If they believe the lies of other people or believe their own lies, then they are not liars by definintion. They are deluded or wrong but they are not liars.

[seer]

I am departing the fallen earth and waking up in the remade earth with Christ or departing from this life to arrive in my new life with Christ

It doesn't seem that Paul sees any lag time between dying or departing and being with Christ. Or as Peter said:

"I think it right, as long as I am in this body, to stir you up by way of reminder, since I know that the putting off of my body will be soon, as our Lord Jesus Christ made clear to me. And I will make every effort so that after my departure you may be able at any time to recall these things."

In other words Peter equates death with putting off his body.

immaterial

So being made in His image there may be something immaterial in man?

[element771]

It doesn't seem that Paul sees any lag time between dying or departing and being with Christ. Or as Peter said:

"I think it right, as long as I am in this body, to stir you up by way of reminder, since I know that the putting off of my body will be soon, as our Lord Jesus Christ made clear to me. And I will make every effort so that after my departure you may be able at any time to recall these things."

In other words Peter equates death with putting off his body.

Three things...

1. I still think that this describes what it will be like to shed our earthly body for our resurrection body.

2. I equate it to going to sleep. When it is time to wake up, it feels like almost no time has passed. I think this is what one hopes. I will die and waking up with Christ will feel immediate.

3. I think these interpretations make it seem that the body is inherently bad which sounds too gnostic for me. Do you not believe that the resurrection is a physical one?

So being made in His image there may be something immaterial in man?

There may be. If there is, I am not opposed to it. I just don't think that is what Scripture tells us.

I think being made in his image is our ability to reason, our urge to create, and our ability to ponder our very existence. I think that this is what separates us from other animals...not a soul.

[JimL]

You have no idea what I've read or haven't read, and my mind is open, but my mind being open doesn't mean that i'm susceptible to believing nonsense.

[JimL]

I am departing the fallen earth and waking up in the remade earth with Christ or departing from this life to arrive in my new life with Christ.



immaterial

So you think that this immaterial god created the material world out of nothing, that he just thought it into existence?

[seer]

Three things...

1. I still think that this describes what it will be like to shed our earthly body for our resurrection body.

2. I equate it to going to sleep. When it is time to wake up, it feels like almost no time has passed. I think this is what one hopes. I will die and waking up with Christ will feel immediate.

3. I think these interpretations make it seem that the body is inherently bad which sounds too gnostic for me. Do you not believe that the resurrection is a physical one?

Well the body is mortal, and must put on immortality, and that is not gnostic. Peter does equate putting off his body with death, and that is soon. At the time of his death he puts off his body. I don't think he is looking forward to a future resurrection.

There may be. If there is, I am not opposed to it. I just don't think that is what Scripture tells us.

Well that is progress of a sort...

I think being made in his image is our ability to reason, our urge to create, and our ability to ponder our very existence. I think that this is what separates us from other animals...not a soul.

OK, well let you sleep while the rest of us are partying in Heaven until the resurrection.

[element771]

You have no idea what I've read or haven't read,

You are right. Just going off of what you have posted, I can infer the following possibilities...

1. You have read a lot of material but don't understand it.

2. You have read a lot of material and understand it but like to pretend you don't (i.e. trolling).

3. You have not read anything.

and my mind is open, but my mind being open doesn't mean that i'm susceptible to believing nonsense.

I would not believe in the nonsensical, cartoon version of Christianity that you espouse either.

[element771]

Well the body is mortal, and must put on immortality, and that is not gnostic. Peter does equate putting off his body with death, and that is soon. At the time of his death he puts off his body. I don't think he is looking forward to a future resurrection.

I can see how you would think that but I think there is room for both interpretations.

Well that is progress of a sort...



OK, well let you sleep while the rest of us are partying in Heaven until the resurrection.

If I awake in heaven upon death, I will not complain that I was wrong and you can gloat all you would like.

[carpedm9587]

Actually, I don't really have an opinion on the star. Many stories, while not strictly history, are shown to be rooted in something historical. I have not seen anything about the star specifically, but I can well imagine that there could have been a shooting star or something of that ilk that led to the legends that led to the stories chronicled in the gospels.

[carpedm9587]

Yes, I understand that there is history, and that the biblical myth is woven into that history, but the myth is still a myth.

Then you should perhaps be more careful about separating the pieces. The claim "the bible is not history" is too sweeping. It makes you sound a bit uninformed - and it makes your other arguments/statements corresponding less likely to be received.

[carpedm9587]

They do if they believe the lies of other people or if they believe their own lies.

If they believe their own "lies," can they properly be said to be lies?

[element771]

Actually, I don't really have an opinion on the star. Many stories, while not strictly history, are shown to be rooted in something historical. I have not seen anything about the star specifically, but I can well imagine that there could have been a shooting star or something of that ilk that led to the legends that led to the stories chronicled in the gospels.

It was a comet that was actually recorded in ancient Chinese records. It fit all of the details recorded in the birth narrative including the Magi and them setting out to visit Jesus. Interestingly, the Chinese recorded that the comet was signifying that a new king / ruler was being born or something to that effect (I forget the exact wording).

I think you would like the scientific approach to verifying the historical accuracy.

[seer]

...you can gloat all you would like.

You can count on it!