I was actually going to debate you on this until you said that last bit and showed you are just trolling again.
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
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Free will defense?
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Originally posted by firstfloor View Post. . . It follows that rebellion against God is a moral duty.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostYou really have no clue. (Jeremiah 31:31-34. Isaiah 53:6. )
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostYou see, if all God did was sit in heaven and love everyone, there would be no issue. What makes Him a tyrant is His Law. Tyrannical religions are widespread. We oppose Islamic State because of its law.
You really do not get it.
I trust you understand simple addition. 1 + 1 = 2.
God all ready provides full forgiveness. The catch? It has to be accepted knowingly without deserving it. But it cannot be accepted if you do not really believe the offer is there. So unless you are yet a child (Mark 10:14-15) and unable to make such a decision, you need to use your free will choice and believe God did it for you (Isaiah 53:6).. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View Postfirstfloor,
You really do not get it.
I trust you understand simple addition. 1 + 1 = 2.
God all ready provides full forgiveness. The catch? It has to be accepted knowingly without deserving it. But it cannot be accepted if you do not really believe the offer is there. So unless you are yet a child (Mark 10:14-15) and unable to make such a decision, you need to use your free will choice and believe God did it for you (Isaiah 53:6).
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View PostOriginally posted by lee_merrill...yet love in heaven will be free, without the possibility of sinning.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostGood question! I believe our love will be like God's, for we will be like God: We know that when He appears, we will be like Him... (1 Jn 3:2). And God cannot sin (re Heb. 6:18).3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures --1 Corinthians 15:3-4 (borrowed with gratitude from 37818's sig)
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostOriginally posted by tabibitoInsofar as the problem of evil can be explained - "free will" is a good jump off point.
"Would evil be loose in the world if everyone whole-heartedly accepted Christ?" Given the scriptural declarations - the answer is seemingly "No."Originally posted by lee_merrillYet "we all stumble in many ways" (James 3:2).
1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more severely than others.2
2 For all of us make many mistakes
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostI often hear people say that evil is in the world because God had to allow free will. "Love must be free" is another way to state this, this is the "free will defense" to the problem of evil, yet love in heaven will be free, without the possibility of sinning. God's love is free, even though he cannot sin (see Heb. 6:18).
And "We love because he first loved us" (1 John 4:19). Not because we chose to!
I believe that only believers are free (John 8:34,36), free will thus does not explain the problem of evil.
Now freewill as it relates to us is pretty much the same: we can do -- or at least have the potential to do -- anything that is possible within our character and nature, which includes contradicting God since we are not God. In fact, I do not think God could have created us any other way while still giving us freewill, and the entire human experience, from the cradle to the grave, is a test to see which of us will yield to God, and which of us will remain defiant to the end.
So what about freewill in heaven? I don't know. Obviously freewill does exist in heaven, otherwise Satan and a third of the angles could have never rebelled, so I think Sparko is on the right track, that we will still have the freewill ability to sin but no desire to simply because we will have vivid memories of what life was like on earth, and we will have no inclination whatsoever to return to that wretched, pitiful state after experiencing the infinite splendors of heaven in the presence of God himself.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostGood question! I believe our love will be like God's, for we will be like God: We know that when He appears, we will be like Him... (1 Jn 3:2). And God cannot sin (re Heb. 6:18).Last edited by Mountain Man; 08-22-2017, 09:59 PM.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostWhich I believe is an application of a general principle here, we should not all be teachers, because we all stumble in many ways. The perfect man would therefore not be sinless, but "complete", or "mature", as indeed you say.
Blessings,
Lee1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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What are you talking about? What cult? What creed? What confession? What doctrine?
All false cults teach one must "do" in order to obtain and keep forgiveness. Only genuine Christianity teaches this is a "done," that forgiveness is a gift which cannot be merited. God has done the work. God does the saving (John 1:13). God does the keeping (John 10:29). The wage of sin is death (Romans 6:23; Ezekiel 18:4) and the gift (Romans 6:23; Romans 5;8; Isaiah 53:6) is eternal life through Jesus the Christ (1 John 5:9-12) who died and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15;3-4). All one needs to do is trust (believe) God and in His Son whom He sent (John 3:16; John 5:24; John 17:3).
What is your difficulty?. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostWhat are you talking about? What cult? What creed? What confession? What doctrine?
All one needs to do is trust (believe) God and in His Son whom He sent1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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