Who buried Jesus?

[tabibito]

[QUOTE=RhinestoneCowboy;455235]

we "put off the body of the flesh" in Col. 2:11

he's talking there about people who have been baptised, not about people who have ceased to live.

Luke, on the other hand says, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." - Luke 24:39

Paul and Luke had a different idea of what Jesus' resurrection body was like.

Where do we find evidence of these different ideas?

[37818]

I know they don't agree. It's because it refutes their orthodox view. No surprise there!

Well that is your intent. Then so what? Repeating a falsehood does not make it true.

[tabibito]

37818 Find a place in the Bible that says the Passover is celebrated at any time after the 14th day of the first month - they do exist. Then look for any date other than the 14th being given for the celebration of the Passover - they do not exist. Then look over the recent comments that you have made.

[Sparko]

Well that is your intent. Then so what? Repeating a falsehood does not make it true.

he is not worth arguing with. do like I do and just ignore him.

[One Bad Pig]

You mean contradictory evidence which coincidentally aligns with legendary growth over time since the amazing physical encounters only appear in the latest sources?

Here's some special pleading.

Do you consider the reports where Romulus or Asclepius "appear" or are "raised from the dead" to be evidence?

Look, here's some more.

Special pleading.....3.....2.....1

Yep, right there in your post!

[RhinestoneCowboy]

Exodus 12:6-8 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. 7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike [it] on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it. 8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread

In the evening that the lamb is to be slaughtered, and it is to be eaten in that night. The night of the 15th would be the NEXT night, not the same night - even if the lamb was slaughtered during the second evening.

Leviticus 23:5 In the fourteenth [day] of the first month at even [is] the LORD'S passover.

This one doesn't even admit the possibility that the passover is on the 15th.

Numbers 9:3-5 In the fourteenth day of this month, at even, ye shall keep it in his appointed season: according to all the rites of it, and according to all the ceremonies thereof, shall ye keep it. ... 5 And they kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the first month at even in the wilderness of Sinai

ALL the rites of passover on the 14th. They kept the Passover on the 14th - no mention of any part of the Passover being celebrated on the 15th.

The passover celebration of today is not the same as in the time of Moses, nor is it the same as was done 2000 years ago.

Again, same response. Eating it "that night" would be Nisan 15. The night indicates the beginning of the "next day" according to Jewish thought. Lambs weren't slaughtered in the evening. They were slaughtered in the afternoon per Josephus and the Mishnah.

"So these high priests, upon the coming of that feast which is called the Passover, when they slay their sacrifices, from the ninth hour till the eleventh, but so that a company not less than ten belong to every sacrifice (for it is not lawful for them to feast singly by themselves), and many of us are twenty in a company." - Josephus Wars 6.423

The 9th to 11th hours is 3-5pm.

Mishnah Tractate Pesachim - 5:1: "The continual (daily) offering 1 was slaughtered half an hour after the eighth hour, and sacrificed half an hour after the ninth hour; but on the day before Passover, whether that day happened to be a week-day or a Sabbath, it was slaughtered half an hour after the seventh hour, and sacrificed half an hour after the eighth hour. When the day before the Passover happened to be a Friday, it was slaughtered half an hour after the sixth hour, sacrificed half an hour after the seventh hour, and the Passover sacrifice celebrated (immediately) afterwards."

The "first hour" is 6am. It's saying on regular days, the offerings were slaughtered at 2:30 PM and sacrificed at 3:30. On the day before Passover, it was done an hour earlier, with the slaughter at 1:30 and the sacrifice at 2:30. If the day before Passover was on a Friday, everything was moved yet another hour earlier with the slaughter at 12:30 and the sacrifice at 1:30 with the feast immediately afterward. The classic view in the synoptics is that the Passover begins at sundown Thursday, which would mean the sacrifices (according to the Mishnah) had to happen prior to that at 2:30 PM. What night of the week are you claiming that they ate the Passover on?

[RhinestoneCowboy]

he is not worth arguing with. do like I do and just ignore him.

Finally.

[RhinestoneCowboy]

Here's some special pleading.

Look, here's some more.

Yep, right there in your post!

Looking forward to your refutation. http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post449602

[tabibito]

Again, same response. Eating it "that night" would be Nisan 15. Lambs weren't slaughtered in the evening. They were slaughtered in the afternoon per Josephus and the Mishnah.

"So these high priests, upon the coming of that feast which is called the Passover, when they slay their sacrifices, from the ninth hour till the eleventh, but so that a company not less than ten belong to every sacrifice (for it is not lawful for them to feast singly by themselves), and many of us are twenty in a company." - Josephus Wars 6.423

The 9th to 11th hours is 3-5pm.

Mishnah Tractate Pesachim - 5:1: "The continual (daily) offering 1 was slaughtered half an hour after the eighth hour, and sacrificed half an hour after the ninth hour; but on the day before Passover, whether that day happened to be a week-day or a Sabbath, it was slaughtered half an hour after the seventh hour, and sacrificed half an hour after the eighth hour. When the day before the Passover happened to be a Friday, it was slaughtered half an hour after the sixth hour, sacrificed half an hour after the seventh hour, and the Passover sacrifice celebrated (immediately) afterwards."

Precisely which offerings is this passage talking about? Is it the Passover sacrifice?

[RhinestoneCowboy]

That is what I was saying is the common missinterpretation. You are repeating it. If you choose to reject that interpreation that John agrees with the 15th crucifixion, that is your prerogative. I explained that interpretation (Luke 22:1; John 19:14; Numbers 28:24).

I still don't get it. The day the lambs were slaughtered was Nisan 14, not Nisan 15. John has Jesus crucified the SAME DAY the lambs are slaughtered - "Preparation for the Passover" - John 19:14. In contrast, the synoptics have Jesus executed THE DAY AFTER the Passover meal was eaten.

[RhinestoneCowboy]

Precisely which offerings is this passage talking about? Is it the Passover sacrifice?

Yes, you'll notice that both Josephus and the Mishnah passage say "Passover." Here's the link: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...hapter-5#fn_53

[tabibito]

Yes, you'll notice that both Josephus and the Mishnah passage say "Passover." Here's the link: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...hapter-5#fn_53

The second section that you cited makes no mention of the Passover.

And the first is a repost of what you posted earlier, and to which I responded earlier.

[tabibito]

I still don't get it. The day the lambs were slaughtered was Nisan 14, not Nisan 15. John has Jesus crucified the SAME DAY the lambs are slaughtered - "Preparation for the Passover" - John 19:14. In contrast, the synoptics have Jesus executed THE DAY AFTER the Passover meal was eaten.

Jesus was executed, according to all the gospel accounts, on the day of preparation - the afternoon of the same day that he and the disciples ate the Passover. 18 hours after the start of the day, with the meal being eaten within a few hours of the start of the day.

[Teallaura]

OK. I fail to understand your objection to my explanation that resurrected bodies are bloodless. Please explain how and why I have it wrong. You are contending I have it wrong about the resurrected bodies of Jesus and the saved. Please explain why.

There's no grounds for your assumption that Jesus' body was devoid of blood at the time of His death. Nothing in any Gospel or the NT even hints that the body was ever completely exsanguinated - nor was there any reason to do so, nor was there any ancient practice of doing so before burial.

The cross itself, including the stab wound, is not capable of complete exsanguination.

Theologically, His blood being shed is sufficient - there's no need to physically remove all the blood from the body nor does 'shedding blood' refer to exsanguination of that extent.

Your assumption that because the shed blood of Christ atones it must be all His blood is unwarranted.

In short, you're reading into the text what is not present. Since it is not true of Jesus Himself, your secondary conclusion that the saved will also live lives without blood is unwarranted.

It also contradicts Scripture - Scripture states that the life is in the blood. It seems unlikely that God will be creating a new bloodless form of life.

[RhinestoneCowboy]

The second section that you cited makes no mention of the Passover.

And the first is a repost of what you posted earlier, and to which I responded earlier.

Huh?

Mishnah Tractate Pesachim - 5:1: "The continual (daily) offering 1 was slaughtered half an hour after the eighth hour, and sacrificed half an hour after the ninth hour; but on the day before Passover, whether that day happened to be a week-day or a Sabbath, it was slaughtered half an hour after the seventh hour, and sacrificed half an hour after the eighth hour. When the day before the Passover happened to be a Friday, it was slaughtered half an hour after the sixth hour, sacrificed half an hour after the seventh hour, and the Passover sacrifice celebrated (immediately) afterwards."

And Josephus attests that the latest time the lambs were slaughtered was 5pm. This was not evening. It was still the afternoon of Nisan 14.

Jesus was executed, according to all the gospel accounts, on the day of preparation - the afternoon of the same day that he and the disciples ate the Passover. 18 hours after the start of the day, with the meal being eaten within a few hours of the start of the day.

- Bart Ehrman, Jesus Interrupted, pg. 26.

As for your "Jews celebrated two different Passovers" excuse:

"Some scholars have argued that we have this difference between the Gospels because different Jews celebrated Passover on different days of the week. This is one of those explanations that sounds plausible until you dig a bit and think a bit more. It is true that some sectarian groups not connected with the Temple in Jerusalem thought that the Temple authorities followed an incorrect calendar. But in both Mark and John, Jesus is not outside Jerusalem with some sectarian group of Jews: he is in Jerusalem, where the lambs are being slaughtered. And in Jerusalem, there was only one day of Passover a year. The Jerusalem priests did not accommodate the calendrical oddities of a few sectarian fringe groups." - pg. 27