Pascal's Wager: What Have I Lost?

[Roy]

IIRC one of the Egyptian myths held that non-believers were eaten by the serpent Apep after death and so didn't get an afterlife at all.

so then no worse than if atheism is right, then.

It's much worse.

Believe in Ra and Apep -> get an afterlife.
Disbelieve in Ra and Apep -> don't get an afterlife.

You believe everyone gets an afterlife, right?

[37818]

You believe everyone gets an afterlife, right?

No. There is also an after death death (Revelation 21:8, ". . . the second death).

[Sparko]

So "eternal life" is the big draw-card.

No. Christianity teaches that everyone gets eternal life, no matter if they believe or not. It's the eternal destination that is the important part.

[Sparko]

It's much worse.

Believe in Ra and Apep -> get an afterlife.
Disbelieve in Ra and Apep -> don't get an afterlife.

You believe everyone gets an afterlife, right?

as I said just above: yeppers.

But Atheists believe you don't get one. So being eaten by Apep and not getting an afterlife is the functional equivalent to what happens to you in atheism. So you are back to the original Pascal's wager: Which is better? If Atheism/Egyptian is right I get nothing. If Christianity is right I get heaven.

At least for me, since I am a Christian.

For you:
If Egyptian religion is correct you get nothing, same as atheism. But if Christianity is right you get hell, which is worse than nothing.

[Roy]

Which is better? If Atheism/Egyptian is right I get nothing. If Christianity is right I get heaven.

At least for me, since I am a Christian.

For you:
If Egyptian religion is correct you get nothing, same as atheism. But if Christianity is right you get hell, which is worse than nothing.

Is hell worth than nothing? Would a sincere non-believer or follower of another religion actually get hell? Is it really "follow me without any reason to do so or I'll torture you for eternity"???

For Sun-god worshippers:
If Egyptian religion is correct, you get paradise.
If Christian religion is correct, you get a second chance.
If atheism is correct, you get nothing.

For Christians:
If Egyptian religion is correct, you get nothing.
If Christian religion is correct, you get paradise.
If atheism is correct, you get nothing.

[37818]

No. Christianity teaches that everyone gets eternal life, no matter if they believe or not. It's the eternal destination that is the important part.

No. The second death is not an eternal life.

[Sparko]

Is hell worth than nothing? Would a sincere non-believer or follower of another religion actually get hell? Is it really "follow me without any reason to do so or I'll torture you for eternity"???

1. Yes, hell is worse than nothing.
2. It is not "Follow me without any reason to do so or I will torture you for eternity" - it is "you have sinned and done wrong and without accepting my forgiveness through Jesus you will be eternally separated from me" Basically at judgment day, you will be judged for your sins, not for "not believing"

We are all guilty of sin and rebelling against God. for that we deserve hell, which is separation from God. Jesus sacrificed himself to pay for our sins. Accepting him as your Lord and Savior means basically choosing sides and accepting God's mercy. Not believing means choosing sides and deciding you will just face Judgment by yourself and pay for your sins yourself. So believers get a "pardon" and nonbelievers have to serve out the sentence they deserve.

For Sun-god worshippers:
If Egyptian religion is correct, you get paradise.
If Christian religion is correct, you get a second chance.
If atheism is correct, you get nothing.

No, if Christianity is correct you get hell. There is no second chance after you die. Just the judgment.

For Christians:
If Egyptian religion is correct, you get nothing.
If Christian religion is correct, you get paradise.
If atheism is correct, you get nothing.

correct.

[Sparko]

No. The second death is not an eternal life.

You are still alive for eternity in hell. Not much of a life but still conscious and alive.

[37818]

You are still alive for eternity in hell. Not much of a life but still conscious and alive.

False. Still conscious yes, but both the body and soul are dead for eternity in the second death. When a person merely dies from this life, the soul is not yet dead. Only after the judgement does the death of the soul occur in the second death.

[Sparko]

False. Still conscious yes, but both the body and soul are dead for eternity in the second death. When a person merely dies from this life, the soul is not yet dead. Only after the judgement does the death of the soul occur in the second death.

say whaaat?

[One Bad Pig]

say whaaat?

Some Christians argue that hell is not eternal (Theonomy took that position, for example).

[Sparko]

Some Christians argue that hell is not eternal (Theonomy took that position, for example).

I don't think that is what he is arguing though. I think he is arguing semantics. That "alive" only applies to heaven and "dead" applies to the very same conscious state in hell. He is picking nits.

[Tassman]

No. Christianity teaches that everyone gets eternal life, no matter if they believe or not. It's the eternal destination that is the important part.

[37818]

say whaaat?

Jesus taught killing the body does not kill the soul. But both the body and soul will be ruined, perish, be destroyed in Hell (Matthew 10:28). Hell being identified as the second death (Revelation 20:11-15; Revelation 21:8). And that the dead bodies will gnash their teeth (Matthew 25:30) and the dead souls with their bodies be in torment forever(Revelation 14:10-11; comp Revelation 20:10).

[37818]

I don't think that is what he is arguing though. I think he is arguing semantics. That "alive" only applies to heaven and "dead" applies to the very same conscious state in hell. He is picking nits.

God says it:

Ezekiel 18:4, 20; James 5:20.