Originally posted by Doug Shaver
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Whether humans can be righteous and meet God's standards
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1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
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Originally posted by Doug Shaver View PostIn that case, the issue of whose interpretation is correct cannot be resolved until the issue of inerrancy is resolved. If you are an inerrantist, then you cannot defend your interpretation of scripture until you have defended your belief in inerrancy.
Inerrancy has to do with the original autographs of the text. Not discrepant interpretations, not discrepant translation and not know variants do to discrepant copying.
Now do you know of one exception that would actually disprove inerrancy? There are 100's of known claims. Pick one.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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If you are an inerrantist, then you cannot defend your interpretation of scripture until you have defended your belief in inerrancy.
Originally posted by 37818 View PostInerrancy has everything to do with God being inerrant and the written texts being identified as being God's word.
Originally posted by 37818 View PostNow do you know of one exception that would actually disprove inerrancy?
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostInerrancy has everything to do with God being inerrant and the written texts being identified as being God's word.
Inerrancy has to do with the original autographs of the text. Not discrepant interpretations, not discrepant translation and not know variants do to discrepant copying.
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Originally posted by Doug Shaver View PostThat is an affirmation of inerrancy. It is not a defense of inerrancy.
I don't need a disproof if I have no reason to believe it in the first place. I am not obliged to believe everything somebody tells me except when I can prove the contrary.
Originally posted by Tassman View PostWho said that the texts are God's word, God's word?
This is the claim, but it's unsupported by any substantive evidence, it's a faith-belief.Last edited by 37818; 05-07-2017, 09:50 AM.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostBecause you say so?
That is because Biblical inerrancy has not been disproved. Denied by many, yes. Many claims.
Really? Explain why you think that. Every book whether attributed to be from God or not has an original autograph. The origins of the Bible were hand copied books. But you know that. Didn't you?
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostMore to the point Biblical inerrancy has never been proved.
In theology, as in science, theories aren't proven. Rather, they are accepted if they survive disproof.
Originally posted by Tassman View PostThe question is why attribute any books to a deity?
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostOn the other hand, denial of that belief often seems to accompany a willingness to discard any teaching of Scripture that the denier finds uncomfortable.
Even if that were the teaching, if even one instance of an error were demonstrated, that teaching would itself be an error.Last edited by tabibito; 05-08-2017, 01:40 AM.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by Kbertsche View PostNeither has any scientific theory ever been proved (e.g. gravity, plate tectonics).
In theology, as in science, theories aren't proven. Rather, they are accepted if they survive disproof.Yes, that's the more fundamental question. As 37818 explained, inerrancy is just the logical consequence of divine inspiration.. The fundamental question is whether or not Scripture is divinely inspired.
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You have a very poor, incorrect understanding of theology, and possibly of science as well.
Theological claims are tested and validated against Scripture, analogous to how scientific claims are tested and validated against nature. The theological method is highly analogous to the scientific method. Augustine called theology "the queen of the sciences".
Originally posted by Tassman View Post37818 explained nothing, merely asserted without substantive evidence, that scripture is inspired and inerrant.
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show me how every historical event has been multiply tested and validated so it can be confidently acted upon as if they were true facts.
Tassy, historical events can't be tested and validated. They happened only once and all we have are the records, documents and archeological left behinds.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postshow me how every historical event has been multiply tested and validated so it can be confidently acted upon as if they were true facts.
Tassy, historical events can't be tested and validated. They happened only once and all we have are the records, documents and archeological left behinds."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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