Originally posted by Alien
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Apologetics 301 Guidelines
If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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The Problem Of Evil?
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Originally posted by seer View Post
Nope, that doesn't follow. God is a life giver, Creator. We own our very existence to Him. Just because you, in your limited sinful understanding, don't like the way He does things does not mean that He is not perfectly good or just. Or not worthy of praise. Christian, Jews and even Muslims see the same world that you do, yet we still praise God and do not question His goodness."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
That is an theological belief not a fact.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
God makes a point of describing himself in terms of a parent in the bible and us as his children.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostSo if that analogy is good enough for God, it is good enough for me. Hypatia just didn't want to accept the analogy so she made up an excuse that God was omniscient and omnipotent so we can't use human analogies because apparently he is beyond our understanding.
"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostThat is one of the various anthropomorphic views of the deity in the OT [there are several others]. However, this deity did not describe itself anywhere in those biblical texts. Unless you believe the deity penned the words itself.
1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostThat is one of the various anthropomorphic views of the deity in the OT [there are several others]. However, this deity did not describe itself anywhere in those biblical texts. Unless you believe the deity penned the words itself.
Do you not believe your deity to be both omniscient and omnipotent?
But if your excuse is that we can't understand an omniscient and omnipotent being, so we can't explain his motivations, then you also cannot criticize such a being based on your limited understanding and flawed morals.
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostRight. You hate God and you dislike me since I didn’t let you know about a decision about your infraction that I had no idea about.
The appeal decision is concluded, with both sides agreeing on the outcome. Your involvement, or otherwise, was not relevant.
As for disliking you? I don’t know you, so how could I dislike you? Or come to that, anyone else on TWeb. To me, “mossrose” is a handle and an avatar on a web forum, who is usually, but not always, on the other side of the philosophical fence. Along with everyone else here, I know nothing about you personally, other than that which comes out in conversation from time to time.
First part second.
Of course I don’t “hate God”, I’m a non-believer. How could I hate something for which I have no belief? Hating God would be as foolish as hating Odin, Zeus, Vishnu or any other god, for which I have no belief, from the pantheon. I was simply responding to what I considered was your line of unsubstantiated, and rather preachy, comments regarding designers and their plans.
It is pointless now for me to continue to explain to you and HA about the nature of this topic. You are both blind and cannot see the truths before you. I pray you both change your choice before it is too late for you.
When inventing a god, it is imperative to claim that it's; invisible, inaudible and imperceptible in every way. Otherwise - when it appears to no one, is silent and does nothing - intelligent people are liable to become sceptical.
- Anonymous
When asked why Omniscient and Omnipotent God, chose to burn alive the children of two Middle Eastern cities, came the reply;
“His hands were tied.” - DaveTheApologist
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
That is an theological belief not a fact.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Machinist View PostGot a question about moral realism:
when you suggest this view, doesn't that assume there is an objective realm of moral forms ?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View Post
Yes, if they existed they would be in the Platonic forms sense, I suppose (I don't actually believe they exist though). But I believe the majority of atheistic philosophers hold to some form of moral realism today- moral relativism is bankrupt as a moral theory.
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Originally posted by seer View Post
God is a fact, the most concrete fact possible."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
- 1 like
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
A God [whichever one you are invoking] is not a fact and you cannot prove such an entity [or entities] to be a fact.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Machinist View PostI was talking about defining something (not just morality) by its opposite, not how the standards of morality are determined.-Alien
Perhaps not defined by it's opposite, but rather "exists" by virtue of it's opposite.
This reminds me of the Taoist take on the subject:
Under Heaven all can see beauty as beauty only because there is ugliness.
All can know good as good only because there is evil.
Therefore having and not having arise together.
Difficult and easy complement each other.
Long and short contrast with each other;
High and low rest upon each other;
Voice and sound harmonize each other;
Front and back follow one another.
Therefore the sage goes about doing nothing, teaching no talking.
The ten thousand things rise and fall without cease,
Creating, yet not possessing,
Working, yet not taking credit,
Work is done, then forgotten.
Therefore it lasts for ever.
I understand the whole idea of the relative uses of "high" and "low" for positional references, but high/low, dark/light, in/out, etc are absolutes in concept.
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