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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Is Sola Scritura from Scripture?
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Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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I was under the impression (by way of a recent theology podcast I listened to) that the Orthodox church considered the deuterocanonical books as secondary in authority (and thus the name), and that the RCC does not consider the deuterocanonical works secondary in authority, but that they mean "deutero" in a chronological sense, in that the deuterocanon was recognized and considered canonical later. Is that your understanding as well?
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI was under the impression (by way of a recent theology podcast I listened to) that the Orthodox church considered the deuterocanonical books as secondary in authority (and thus the name), and that the RCC does not consider the deuterocanonical works secondary in authority, but that they mean "deutero" in a chronological sense, in that the deuterocanon was recognized and considered canonical later. Is that your understanding as well?Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by GoBahnsen View PostGood. I like Calvin. But I don't want to be a Calvinist. I never got my head wrapped around presuppositionalism enough to be any good at arguing from it. So I would be presup at it's worst.
I certainly wouldn't advocate a Red Letter only bible. I love all 66 books.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThe view of presuppositionalism has no logical argument supporting it, and it claims that there is no logical argument. It considers it beliefs and the Bible simply as fact and true without question.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThe view of presuppositionalism has no logical argument supporting it, and it claims that there is no logical argument. It considers it beliefs and the Bible simply as fact and true without question.Last edited by 37818; 12-15-2015, 08:39 AM.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by GoBahnsen View PostI think it claims God is the author of logic and one cannot know anything logically without presupposing the existence of the Triune God. For the Atheist to use logic, he must borrow from the Christian worldview. Stuff like that is what I recall. It certainly isn't some hillbilly point of view. It does go over my head for sure.
An inactive member Mr. Black was a classic 'Van Til' presuppositionalist.
I believe it is the Classical Apologists that propose God is the author of the Laws of Logic.Last edited by shunyadragon; 12-15-2015, 06:21 PM.
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Logic has its basis from God. ". . . All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made." And that includes logic.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostLogic has its basis from God. ". . . All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made." And that includes logic.
I do not agree with either position, but that is the subject of another thread.Last edited by shunyadragon; 12-15-2015, 09:07 PM.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostI suppose you could say that informally; the canon has never been dogmatically established. Historically speaking, there's a definite core of 22 books (=39 as counted today), with many fathers quoting a varying set including some deuterocanonical books as authoritative. There is no OT lectionary, although various portions of the OT are included in the rubrics (primarily for Vespers); Wisdom is the only deuterocanonical book in the set, but the Prayer of Azariah/Song of the Three Holy Youths (Greek addition to Daniel) are two of the nine canticles around which a canon is constructed.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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37818:
Regarding the question of whether the concept of sola scriptura may be derived from Scripture, I will simply say this: if one should become convinced of the falsity of sola scriptura, he/she will likely find him-/herself drawn towards Eastern Orthodoxy or Roman Catholicism (assuming he or she remains a believer).For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>
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Probably true, as though raised Protestant I always doubted the 66 convention. By 1964 I was inclined to go Eastern Orthodox and in 1969 got baptized Roman Catholic. After seeing internal contradictions within RC I still saw no reason to settle on 66 books and joined the Episcopal Church in 1992 (with about 75 books in the canon in the Thirty-Nine Articles). In 2004 I remained outside sola scriptura in holding to the Nicene Creed when I converted to Lutheran. We basically hold to 66 books, but sometimes read on Sundays from Wisdom or Sirach. But Luther himself accepted less than 66.Near the Peoples' Republic of Davis, south of the State of Jefferson (Suspended between Left and Right)
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Originally posted by Adam View PostProbably true, as though raised Protestant I always doubted the 66 convention. By 1964 I was inclined to go Eastern Orthodox and in 1969 got baptized Roman Catholic. After seeing internal contradictions within RC I still saw no reason to settle on 66 books and joined the Episcopal Church in 1992 (with about 75 books in the canon in the Thirty-Nine Articles). In 2004 I remained outside sola scriptura in holding to the Nicene Creed when I converted to Lutheran. We basically hold to 66 books, but sometimes read on Sundays from Wisdom or Sirach. But Luther himself accepted less than 66.For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>
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Mossy says so, because I believe that current evil beings, demons and such derive from an original Evil, uncreated by our God, but whom God has foreborn obliteration, out of His great mercy. I consider myself fully orthodox with the unusual plus of a theodicy that solves the Problem of Evil.
(The Bible nowhere states that God created Satan or even the angels.)
(Regarding Martin Luther, I should have added that he translated all 66 books of the Bible in spite of his reservations about Esther, James, and perhaps others.)Near the Peoples' Republic of Davis, south of the State of Jefferson (Suspended between Left and Right)
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Originally posted by Adam View PostMossy says so, because I believe that current evil beings, demons and such derive from an original Evil, uncreated by our God, but whom God has foreborn obliteration, out of His great mercy. I consider myself fully orthodox with the unusual plus of a theodicy that solves the Problem of Evil.
(The Bible nowhere states that God created Satan or even the angels.)
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