Originally posted by mossrose
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Theology 201 Guidelines
This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Celebrating Christmas
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostI am SO glad you are here, GoBa!!
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Originally posted by GoBahnsen View PostOk. Yeah, well sorry to disappoint, but my position is merely based on things I have picked up along the way and then simply "bought in" because it sounded legit. So, maybe I am the victim of bad info.
It does seem suspect that we are celebrating Christ's birth at a time of year when he most likely was not born in. Like requiring the subjects of Rome to travel to their own cities to file for taxes in the dead of Winter. So when I see people put out signs that Jesus is the "reason for the season"....I'm like...I don't think so. He is the reason for every season for that matter.
From what I can tell, there are a few early traditions that put Jesus' date of birth in Winter. I mean, not 1st Century AD early, but closer to the 200-300 A.D. range.
Christmas here in America seems to be more about family, gift giving, parties, and a bunch of fantasy stuff. Why try to shoe-horn Christ's birth in there? As if He needs or wants a birthday celebration. But if it draws one closer to Christ by celebrating His birth on December 25th, far be it from me to begrudge them that much.
It's a silly movie, but I think one part of the "Code of the Elves" in the movie "Elf" should actually be followed, it would lead to a lot of good. That part would be "Treat Every Day Like Christmas". Now, obviously not the message that you get from "A Charlie Brown Christmas", but I think it's still a good one. I like both movies a lot.
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Originally posted by GoBahnsen View PostPagans ate food too. Thus we should avoid food.If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostDo you get what I'm hinting at? Even if pagans did happen to use some of the same celebration activities in their holidays, it's the genetic fallacy to claim that Christians can't use Christmas decorations because pagans may have done a similar thing. Triumphant reclamation FTW!
But at some point we do have to make distinctions on various matters. I can envision 1st century pagans celebrating the solstice, as if to some sun-god or whatever the case was. And if in their celebration they did peculiar things.....it would be weird if Christians suddenly said "hey lets do that too, it looks nice." Don't you agree?
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Originally posted by GoBahnsen View PostBut at some point we do have to make distinctions on various matters. I can envision 1st century pagans celebrating the solstice, as if to some sun-god or whatever the case was. And if in their celebration they did peculiar things.....it would be weird if Christians suddenly said "hey lets do that too, it looks nice." Don't you agree?
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostRomans didn't celebrate the solstice in the first century. It's possible that some barbarians did, but it wasn't normative for the culture in which the church got its start.
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Here is a really good blog post that has really good thinking on this subject.
http://www.gty.org/Blog/B151221
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by GoBahnsen View PostIt seems you are asking whether or not Christmas type of traditions should be included along with baptism and the Lord's Supper.
To that I would say that inside of a Church there shouldn't be a Christmas tree, etc. Only because the tree and other things that often go along with celebrating Christ's birth do have their origins in pagan traditions surrounding the Winter solstice. Of course many church leaders are ignorant of this and thus bring these pagan traditions into the house of public worship. How God feels about it, I don't know.
We have a tree in our house. My wife likes having one. It does look nice. We enjoy it thru the lens of our Christian world-view.Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View PostWe should also never in church mention by name the days of the week or most of the months of the year, or the planets, because they were named to honor pagan deities.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View PostWe should also never in church mention by name the days of the week or most of the months of the year, or the planets, because they were named to honor pagan deities.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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