Originally posted by tabibito
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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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What are the essentials of the genuine Christian faith?
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Originally posted by Truthseeker View PostI guessed what that may mean . . . "But they do make the Christian experience less so." I think that's probably wrong. I remain puzzled what it means.
Matthew 6:33]Seek first the kingdom of Heaven and HIS righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
James 4:3You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostRomans 8:13For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Colossians 3:5Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.
Ephesians 5:5For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
Ezekiel 18:4
Ezekiel 18:21
Ezekiel 18:26
Where does that leave the one who intends to sin? Or the one who does not commit to doing all that God requires?
Matthew 7:21
Luke 6:46
So to return to your earlier question - outcomes hinge on the firm commitment to turn away from self and toward God. Temporary failures to hold to that commitment may occur from time to time (and with decreasing frequency), but are not a determining factor - provided that they are indeed temporary and no more than failures. But they do exact a heavy toll on the Christian experience.
So for the Christian who is earnestly and anxiously trying to do good but continually failing what should they do? Should they keep trying regardless of success? And if temporary failures don't count against a Christian, what happens if they die while struggling with something that is a temporary failure?Last edited by Paula; 10-04-2015, 07:33 PM.
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We are dependent on God keeping faith, being true to his word, at all times. The "what would happen ifs" posit that God will find it convenient to not keep his word in certain circumstances. Were God willing that some should die, maybe that kind of hypothetical issue could be addressed.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostWe are dependent on God keeping faith, being true to his word, at all times. The "what would happen ifs" posit that God will find it convenient to not keep his word in certain circumstances. Were God willing that some should die, maybe that kind of hypothetical issue could be addressed.Last edited by Paula; 10-18-2015, 07:57 PM.
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The Biblical declaration is: with due diligence, under the auspices of the Holy Spirit, the Christian will achieve the ability to live without sinning. The question may arise whether the scriptures are fallible, but there is no question about what they actually declare. The essential teaching is summed up in the beatitudes - particularly:Matthew 5:6CompareBlessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, For they shall be filled.Matthew 5:8Blessed are the pure in heart, For they shall see God1 John 3:6and further to that, the commandWhoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.Matthew 6:33
SEEK (BDAG)to look for someth. with a view to securing it, desire, seek to get (1 Macc 7:12) ἐ. τι ἐκ τ. χειρῶν τινος B 2:5 (Is 1:12).
Originally posted by Paula View PostAnd I certainly agree that God is faithful. Nevertheless, Christians still seem to commit sins throughout their lives. So it doesn't necessarily follow that God being faithful entails moral perfection before death because if it did then it would likely be normative.Last edited by tabibito; 10-18-2015, 09:29 PM.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostYes, it would be normative, and with it the conferred authority to perform miracles. Though to be sure, miracles are more dependent on the promotion of the true gospel than on the believer's not sinning.
I may have misunderstood but are you also saying that performing miracles (i.e. healing, prophecy, etc) is also normative?
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View PostI'm missing the context of the OP so at the risk of being totally off base, I'll respond...
What I view as the essentials are:
- God exists as a Trinity
- He is Creator and Sustainer of all that is seen and unseen.
- Jesus Christ was incarnate as fully God and fully man.
- Jesus Christ paid for my sins by His sacrifice on the cross (aka Substitutionary Atonement)
- On the third day, He was bodily Resurrected from grave. He later ascended to Heaven and is seated at the right hand of God.
- The Bible is God's revelation to man. It is inerrant in the original manuscripts. It is His only written revelation and needs no addition.
I think that's all I would consider essential.Bible Questions on The Theology QA.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you Matthew" 7:7
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That would be on the lines of heresy. Jesus was only deity before incarnation & put on flesh when he came to earth at the moment of conception.Bible Questions on The Theology QA.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you Matthew" 7:7
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Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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I pray that the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic will become one again someday. Though I have no idea how to pull it off... I feel that mystically we already are somehow.
As for the filioque that is not for me to do anything about.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostI pray that the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic will become one again someday. Though I have no idea how to pull it off... I feel that mystically we already are somehow.
As for the filioque that is not for me to do anything about.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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EO will probably unite with the catholic church soon....
Unfortunately the catholic church has changed so radically & has gone to the point where its systematically entrapping its members evangelicals can't join. The counter reformation proved that the RCC would never reform, so evangelicals,protestants, & reformers will never unite with the RCC.Bible Questions on The Theology QA.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you Matthew" 7:7
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Originally posted by flowers92 View PostEO will probably unite with the catholic church soon....
Unfortunately the catholic church has changed so radically & has gone to the point where its systematically entrapping its members evangelicals can't join. The counter reformation proved that the RCC would never reform, so evangelicals,protestants, & reformers will never unite with the RCC.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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