The ten commandments and being saved

[Bill the Cat]

How can you claim they were never in Christ. A branch can't be cut off unless it was originally attached.

You are talking about separate things here. Those who did "miracles in His name" were the ones that Jesus said He never knew. One thing at a time. We can discuss apostasy shortly.

[footwasher]

You are talking about separate things here. Those who did "miracles in His name" were the ones that Jesus said He never knew. One thing at a time. We can discuss apostasy shortly.

You are positing a situation where a person does miracles but has not abided in Christ?

John 14:Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father. 13“Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14“If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

John 15:16You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit--fruit that will last--and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17"If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

[Bill the Cat]

You are positing a situation where a person does miracles but has not abided in Christ?

Absolutely. Matthew 24:23-24

Matthew 24:23-26New American Standard Bible (NASB)

23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him.
24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

John 14:Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father. 13“Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14“If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

John 15:16You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit--fruit that will last--and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.

Emphasis mine. Those in Christ will do the works Christ did because they are His and He knows them. But the false prophets (the ravenous wolves in sheep's clothing) are capable of counterfeit signs and wonders. It is Christ's knowing us that sets us apart from them, not the works that are performed.

[footwasher]

will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.





Emphasis mine. Those in Christ will do the works Christ did because they are His and He knows them. But the false prophets (the ravenous wolves in sheep's clothing) are capable of counterfeit signs and wonders. It is Christ's knowing us that sets us apart from them, not the works that are performed.

You discount the possibility of someone being in Christ, doing great works, but not being "known" by Him?

[Bill the Cat]

You discount the possibility of someone being in Christ, doing great works, but not being "known" by Him?

Yes.

[footwasher]

Yes.

Please define "Being in Christ".

[Bill the Cat]

Please define "Being in Christ".

2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Romans 8:1 - There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Galatians 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 8:17 - And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

1 John 3:2 - Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Ephesians 2:6 - And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

[footwasher]

2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Romans 8:1 - There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:17 - And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galatians 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Ephesians 2:6 - And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Would this be through baptism?
1 John 3:2 - Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Is this a done deal? Is there a situation where this may not be fulfilled?

[Bill the Cat]

2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Romans 8:1 - There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:17 - And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galatians 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Ephesians 2:6 - And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Would this be through baptism?

Romans 6:4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

Galatians 3:27“For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.”


1 John 3:2 - Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Is this a done deal? Is there a situation where this may not be fulfilled?

1 John 2:24As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—eternal life.

You are now getting into apostasy, which is a different subject than never having been known by Christ.

[footwasher]

You are now getting into apostasy, which is a different subject than never having been known by Christ.

Those "in Christ", aren't they "known by Him" and by your previous stipulation, not liable for rejection at a later date?

[Bill the Cat]

Those "in Christ", aren't they "known by Him" and by your previous stipulation, not liable for rejection at a later date?

Correct. He will not reject those He knows, but THEY can reject Him in favor of the man of sin, which leads to apostasy. The difference is that those who were never known by Christ were never saved while those who apostatize were, but threw it away.

[footwasher]

Correct. He will not reject those He knows, but THEY can reject Him in favor of the man of sin, which leads to apostasy. The difference is that those who were never known by Christ were never saved while those who apostatize were, but threw it away.

So why are the false prophets surprised that they were found to be "apostate"? (Matt 7:22)

[Bill the Cat]

So why are the false prophets surprised that they were found to be "apostate"? (Matt 7:22)

They weren't. They were shocked that they were not Christians to begin with because they thought that they were based solely on the things that they were doing.

[footwasher]

They weren't. They were shocked that they were not Christians to begin with because they thought that they were based solely on the things that they were doing.

This then is what unfolded:

False prophet is baptised
Is in Christ
Christ knows him
Works miracles
Apostasises (remember, he is in Christ)
Christ un "likes" him...(revokes his "knowing")

Are we good so far?

[Pentecost]

http://www.faithalone.org/magazine/y2006/06so1.htm

I'm afraid I haven't the slightest clue what "tttt" means. I checked Google and it said "too tipsy to type" and I very highly doubt you meant that. As for as your summation of Lordship Theology, uhm thank you but you are ignoring (don't realize?) the fine points of theology. You as far as I can tell just called everyone but Free Gracers liars about what they actually believe. And I still cannot tell what your soteriology is. If it's Free Grace you didn't answer my criticism, if it's a form of Lordship you seem to have attacked it. I don't get it.