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Theology 201 Guidelines
This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Turning from sin and conversion
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1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
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Here is one quote:
Christ IS Lord, but perhaps not THEIR Lord in the practical sense.
Originally posted by Obsidian View PostThis is completely wrong. Sinning against a government doesn't stop it from being your government. If that were true, there would be no prisons.
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That is like some liberal snowflake saying about Trump, "He's not my president." Yes, in fact he is your president. No where else except in legalistic Christianity does anyone claim that disobeying an authority precludes you from being under that authority.
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostThat was my point. If Christ is not the person's lord, the confession is false - even if the person doing the not confessing believes that Christ is his Lord.
And of course, if Christ DID say that works are necessary - saying that works are not necessary is a claim that Christ lied (based on the presupposition that the person believes that Christ could not have made a mistake.) It is not possible to confess to something without that confession being true.
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Originally posted by Hornet View PostDo you believe that a person's works are a consequence of being born again or the means by which justification is received?
So - faith gives rise to justification
faith does not give rise (by itself) to salvation. Not even a single statement linking faith with salvation fails to have faith + something else involved.
As for "faith alone" - the sole occurrence in the Bible of that pairing states explicitly that we are NOT saved by faith alone.Last edited by tabibito; 04-17-2019, 01:03 PM.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by Obsidian View PostThis is completely wrong.
Sinning against a government doesn't stop it from being your government. If that were true, there would be no prisons.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Hornet View PostHere is one quote:
Here is someone's response to the above quote:
I think the phrase "but perhaps not THEIR Lord in the practical sense" means that they do not submit to God's authority.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Obsidian View PostYou simply shouldn't entertain concepts that are false.
Tabibito is teaching that you become saved by doing good,
which makes Jesus your lord in a practical sense.
To somebody who's being incredibly pedantic.
The only things that control whether a person is your lord is whether he has jurisdiction over you, and whether he has the power to enforce that jurisdiction.
If you believe on Christ, then absolutely he has both. Your obedience has nothing to do with the equation.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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God does not show favoritism, 35 but
welcomes those from every nation who fear Him and do what is right.Last edited by tabibito; 04-17-2019, 01:18 PM.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by Cow PokeIf that person doesn't exercise that jurisdiction, whether he has the power to or not, he is not, in any practical sense, your lord.
I'm thinking this is yet another case of you being right no matter what, and not interested at all in discussing it.
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Originally posted by Obsidian View PostJesus will indeed exercise his jurisdiction, so that is a non-issue.
I'm thinking this is a case of your just not liking me.
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI don't.
And we clearly are not.
Nope.
To somebody who's being incredibly pedantic.
If that person doesn't exercise that jurisdiction, whether he has the power to or not, he is not, in any practical sense, your lord.
I'm thinking this is yet another case of you being right no matter what, and not interested at all in discussing it.
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Obsidian seems to read the Bible with his teacher's tongue.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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