Announcement

Collapse

Theology 201 Guidelines

This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Saved

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 6
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 template Next
  • #61
    Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
    If the person winds up in hell, in precisely what way was he saved from the wrath of God?
    He wasn't -- at the time that he died. That is, if he had died an infinitesimally small time before choosing to cast aside his faith, he would still have been saved from wrath.

    In any case, you are obsessing over one aspect of one word. Yes, this thread is about being "saved," but the idea that salvation is all about some kind of cosmic future "fire insurance" misses much of the point.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Federalist.

    Nationalist Christian.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

    Proud member of the this space left blank community.

    Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

    Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

    Justice for Matthew Perna!

    Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

    Comment

    • #62
      Originally posted by NorrinRadd
      What version do you consider "real"? I checked about a dozen, including several notably "literal" ones, and all included "you" or "ye."
      No they don't. The literal ones just say "Jesus Christ unto eternal life." It's the NIV that tries to warp the passage, as if it were talking about hoping for eternal life for the readers, when in reality it's talking about spreading eternal life to others.

      Comment

      • #63
        Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
        No they don't. The literal ones just say "Jesus Christ unto eternal life." It's the NIV that tries to warp the passage, as if it were talking about hoping for eternal life for the readers, when in reality it's talking about spreading eternal life to others.
        My apologies. I thought "you" -- -- were referring to the "you" at the beginning of v. 20, not the one or two in v. 21.

        Having said that, after consulting several different translations -- NIV, NASB, NAB, NRSV, ESV, ISV, NET, CEB, YLT, LIT, LEB, NLT, HCSB, NKJV -- I don't find that the slight difference in wording affects the meaning the way you claim.
        Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

        Beige Federalist.

        Nationalist Christian.

        "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

        Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

        Proud member of the this space left blank community.

        Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

        Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

        Justice for Matthew Perna!

        Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

        Comment

        • #64
          Originally posted by bling View Post
          Eternal life is spoken of as something the Christian take possession of at their conversion, but looking at the way the Bible describes this possession, it conveys the idea of an inheritance we get later:

          1 John 5 11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

          Jude 1: 20 But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21

          Jude is obviously writing to Christians, but describes them as waiting for Christ to bring them to eternal life.

          Jesus suggests they do not have eternal life yet: John 6: 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal lifebenefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.might become heirs having the hope of eternal life
          Eternal life for the Christian is a present possession. And so is as a believer's possession is the future hope too (Titus 1:2). Romans 6:22 ". . . become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." Eternal life is eternal and as being eternal cannot be lost. The only way one looses eternal life is by not possessing it (1 John 5:12).

          Jude 21, ". . . Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. . . ." That means into what is already possessed. That word does not mean "in order to" have.

          Now, again, how would you explain to someone how to obtain eternal life? And if you feel one can somehow loose it - what would you explain as to how not to loose it.
          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

          Comment

          • #65
            Originally posted by 37818
            Jude 21, ". . . Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. . . ." That means into what is already possessed. That word does not mean "in order to" have.
            It does mean to gain eternal life. But it's not referring to Christians. It's referring to Jesus's mercy toward the unbelievers. That's why, right afterward, it gives two different means of getting people saved. Christians need to keep themselves in the love of God in order to get people saved. For some people we can win them over through simple compassion; for others we should inspire fear. Both these strategies are forms of God's love.

            Comment

            • #66
              Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
              It does mean to gain eternal life. . . .
              For, toward, into - but not "to gain." Either one already has it or is going to get it. The latter sense, it could mean. But I do not think so. ". . . Keep yourselves in the love of God, . . ." is addressing the believer (from v.20).
              ... But it's not referring to Christians.
              The phrase following, ". . . And of some have compassion, making a difference: . . ." Addresses the believer winning some to Christ.
              ... It's referring to Jesus's mercy toward the unbelievers. That's why, right afterward, it gives two different means of getting people saved. Christians need to keep themselves in the love of God in order to get people saved. For some people we can win them over through simple compassion; for others we should inspire fear. Both these strategies are forms of God's love.
              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

              Comment

              • #67

                Comment

                • #68
                  ". . . But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keep yourselves in the love of God, . . ."
                  ". . . looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. . . ." -- Jude 20-23.
                  . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                  . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                  Comment

                  • #69
                    No idea what the point of that was.

                    Comment

                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                      No idea what the point of that was.
                      What was your point regarding?
                      ". . . looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. . . ."
                      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                      Comment

                      • #71
                        I've already said it, like, three times. What part did you not understand?

                        Comment

                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                          I've already said it, like, three times. What part did you not understand?
                          I think your explanation was plain enough. I thought the scripture divided with your eplanation between the two parts would compliment the explanation as you gave it. Was I wrong?
                          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                          Comment

                          • #73
                            When you just post my name and then a Bible verse, it makes it look like you're trying to argue with me. Never mind.

                            Comment

                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                              If you get a real Bible version, it doesn't include the word "you." And in the very next verse, it makes clear that we need to keep ourselves "in the love of God" so that we can spread eternal life to other people, not to ourselves:

                              Jude 1:21-23
                              Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference: and others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
                              What version of the NT does not have you in verse 20???

                              Comment

                              • #75
                                Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                                Eternal life for the Christian is a present possession. And so is as a believer's possession is the future hope too (Titus 1:2). Romans 6:22 ". . . become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." Eternal life is eternal and as being eternal cannot be lost. The only way one looses eternal life is by not possessing it (1 John 5:12).

                                Jude 21, ". . . Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. . . ." That means into what is already possessed. That word does not mean "in order to" have.

                                Now, again, how would you explain to someone how to obtain eternal life? And if you feel one can somehow loose it - what would you explain as to how not to loose it.

                                Comment

                                Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 template Next
                                widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                                Working...
                                X