Originally posted by tabibito
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Eschatology 201 Guidelines
This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.
Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.
However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.
End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.
Millennialism- post-, pre- a-
Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.
From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.
OK folks, let's roll!
Forum Rules: Here
Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.
However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.
End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.
Millennialism- post-, pre- a-
Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.
From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.
OK folks, let's roll!
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
Awkward questions, especially for preterists
Collapse
X
-
-
-
Originally posted by Littlejoe View PostTell me why it matters.
That he would be destroyed? It's a song of taunt, it's hyperbole...
The Pagan Priesthood of Rome. Keeping alive emperor worship, and worship of the Roman Gods.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Faber View PostGood eyesight, Cerebrum.
I figured Darfius was not one to argue with Mormon theologians, since he loves to quote from them.
I figured there was enough in the context to make it obvious that they were Mormon.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Darfius View PostI quoted Joseph Smith once as an expert on the occult, in fact. It was not a positive citation. I know this is asking a lot of a preterist, but try to have a little integrity."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
Comment
-
Originally posted by Darfius View PostWhat evidence do you have that this chapter refers to the Babylonian exile?It's also a taunt drafted by God specifically to humiliate a certain individual.I know you preterists don't think understanding God's word is "particularly relevant" while you assign all manner of arbitrary "symbolism" to the text, but my point is that a carelessness with accurate interpretation is the source of your error.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
-
Originally posted by Darfius View PostI was waiting for someone to suggest that the king in question was Sennacherib, but he was not destroyed on the mountains of Israel. So it can't be him.
Take another look at Isaiah 14:25. It didn't say anything about the king being destroyed on the mountains of Israel. It said that the Lord would break (לִשְׁבֹּ֤ר, or crush) Assyria (אַשּׁוּר֙, or Asher) and trample (אַשּׁוּר֙) him (pronoun implied) on God's mountains.
This actually took place during the lifetime of Isaiah and King Hezekiah. Sennacherib returned to Nineveh, where he was eventually assassinated by two of his sons. Read 2 Kings 19:20-36.
Unless you believe that "the Assyrian" is symbolism for the king of Assyria. Just remember that carelessness with accurate interpretations can be a source of error.Last edited by Faber; 08-08-2015, 04:05 PM.When I Survey....
Comment
-
Originally posted by tabibito View PostWell, yes, I suppose it might not refer to the Babylonian exile, for all that it refers to Babylon's king and the Medes and returning the people of Israel from bondage.
A careless reading might even allow someone to believe it is a prophecy for the end times, if he didn't realise that the whole passage begins with chapter 13:1, and didn't notice that the only place being spoken of as being brought to ruin was Babylon, and didn't notice .... . Yes, that individual being the king of Babylon. Oh the irony.
The Antichrist is destined to fall on the mountains of Israel. See what you can find when you actually read God's word?
Like Christ, the Antichrist has many "types" in Scripture, like Nebuchadnezzar, like Sennacherib, like Pharaoh, like Antiochus Epiphanes, like Nero, but also like Christ, the fulfillment of all the "types" is destined to appear in the last days, leading the worldwide rebellion against God and God's people and he is destined to fall in Israel, the land of his ancestry. Recall that the beast is a king from the ancient past:
An ancient Israelite king. One associated with the number 666.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Faber View PostTake another look at Isaiah 14:25. It didn't say anything about the king being destroyed on the mountains of Israel. It said that the Lord would break (לִשְׁבֹּ֤ר, or crush) Assyria (אַשּׁוּר֙, or Asher) and trample (אַשּׁוּר֙) him (pronoun implied) on God's mountains.
This actually took place during the lifetime of Isaiah and King Hezekiah. Sennacherib returned to Nineveh, where he was eventually assassinated by two of his sons. Read 2 Kings 19:20-36.
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by Darfius View PostIt's also a taunt drafted by God specifically to humiliate a certain individual.Originally posted by Darfius View PostI was waiting for someone to suggest that the king in question was Sennacherib, but he was not destroyed on the mountains of Israel. So it can't be him.
What is hyperbolic about stating the location of his destruction?
[qutoe]Is this something all preterists agree on or are you just making stuff up as you go along?[/quote]Preterist agree on things about as much as futurists do...some times yes, other times nsm:What miracles did the "pagan priesthood of Rome" perform to fool the masses?
When was the "pagan priesthood of Rome" captured alive and thrown into the lake of fire?"What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
Comment
-
Originally posted by Littlejoe View PostAs you point out, it's a taunt to humiliate a certain individual. Sennacherib was humiliated on the mountains of Israel after he blasphemed God. And returned to Assyria in shame. Therefore HE/HIS dreams of conquest of Juday was crushed on the mountains of Jerusalem ...which ultimately led to his demise
The hyperbole is that he dies on the mountains of Israel instead of retreating with egg on his face.
Preterist agree on things about as much as futurists do...some times yes, other times nsm:
There are a lot of examples of "Magic" in the temples of Rome that were just parlor tricks or such...IIRC, there was a statue of a bird that would "warble" if someone asked a question that was true, but it was a water/hydraulic whistle that was activated by a lever or some such by the priests foot...I remember something about a temple that the mammoth stone doors would open "by themselves" when a cord was pulled, which were the same thing. Of course the priests would say the "gods did it"
Partial Preterists still believe there are things to come...
Comment
widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
Comment