Mary Mother of God

[Marta]

All working to God's glory does not mean God never changes His plan.

Going to make no miracle in Cana was but did not remain God's plan.

Going to have Hezekiah die at a certain date was but did not remain God's plan.

Some predictions are conditional, and those plans which did not remain so were then conditional.

As to keeping the Father's commandments, that is another issue. Commandments and plans are not the exact same thing.

Ergo, the things in Apocalypse that seem to contradict Fatima (but the bishop of Fatima of course studied the Apocalypse to see if there was a contradiction) could have been conditional only, with Fatima presenting an alternative, also conditional plan.

And since the conditions were not met, this conditional plan was then wavered for ... going on with the Apocalypse as stated the first time.

The whole purpose of John 11 was that Jesus gave glory back to God, as with the marriage feast at Cana. When God sent His son, Jesus, it was to fulfill the promise to mankind - it wasn't to change it. In Luke 7:19, John the Baptist sent messengers to Jesus asking him are you the one who was to come? Or should we look for another? Again, in Luke 3, John 16:28

[hansgeorg]

The whole purpose of John 11 was that Jesus gave glory back to God, as with the marriage feast at Cana. When God sent His son, Jesus, it was to fulfill the promise to mankind - it wasn't to change it. In Luke 7:19, John the Baptist sent messengers to Jesus asking him are you the one who was to come? Or should we look for another? Again, in Luke 3, John 16:28

Since God's promises to mankind are an absolute plan and not a conditional one, it was inevitably fulfilled.

[Marta]

[QUOTE=hansgeorg;402789] Since God's promises to mankind are an absolute plan and not a conditional one, it was inevitably fulfilled.

13 My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant

You will be the father of many nations. 5 No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you

20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you:

THE BEGINNING OF THE PLAN AND THE PROMISE -



HEBREWS 11 AND Jewish principles of faithThe promises were fulfilled but there is still more to come! Hebrews 10, "For, "In just a little while, he who is coming will come and will not delay."

[hansgeorg]

Some of what is coming to be fulfilled involves God's wrath.

For God to justly implement it, God needs to have given an opportunity to avoid the wrath, as well as that opportunity not being taken.

And that opportunity is what I think Fatima revelation gave.

[Marta]

Some of what is coming to be fulfilled involves God's wrath.

For God to justly implement it, God needs to have given an opportunity to avoid the wrath, as well as that opportunity not being taken.

And that opportunity is what I think Fatima revelation gave.

Jewish sect: (Gen. 49:1)

The Parable of the Devoted Servant

[Marta]

For God to justly implement it, God needs to have given an opportunity to avoid the wrath, as well as that opportunity not being taken.

And that opportunity is what I think Fatima revelation gave.

2 Peter 2:

The real names of Sodom and Gomorrah were not preserved. Sodom was derived from the Hebrew word "S'dom," which means "burnt." Gomorrah is derived from the Hebrew word "'Amorah," which means "a ruined heap." These appear to be place names which were assigned after the disaster and were not their original names.

[Marta]

Some of what is coming to be fulfilled involves God's wrath.

For God to justly implement it, God needs to have given an opportunity to avoid the wrath, as well as that opportunity not being taken.

And that opportunity is what I think Fatima revelation gave.

[hansgeorg]

In Abraham's case, God promised to change his plans if there were so or so many just (final minimum five!) in Sodom.

This means that God would have changed his plans if there had been more just people than Lot, wife, two daughters.

I e, God's plans are sometimes changeable.

With Noah we have evidence from after Genesis (1 or 2 Peter) that Noah preached, which would have been meaningless if God was going to destroy all whatever the reaction was. Obviously the reaction was not sufficient repentance to save the world from the Flood.

So, Fatima would perhaps be our last chance, as Noah was that of the pre-Flood world.

[Marta]

In Abraham's case, God promised to change his plans if there were so or so many just (final minimum five!) in Sodom.

This means that God would have changed his plans if there had been more just people than Lot, wife, two daughters.

I e, God's plans are sometimes changeable.

With Noah we have evidence from after Genesis (1 or 2 Peter) that Noah preached, which would have been meaningless if God was going to destroy all whatever the reaction was. Obviously the reaction was not sufficient repentance to save the world from the Flood.

So, Fatima would perhaps be our last chance, as Noah was that of the pre-Flood world.

The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.Care was therefore taken for saving Lot and his family.
But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.
I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.

God doesn't change His Plan - there's a story that goes like this, Why did God call out to Adam in the garden? Since God is all seeing and knowing?

Answer, "He just wanted to make sure if we knew where we were at" - in the sin.

[Marta]

[QUOTE]

In Abraham's case, God promised to change his plans if there were so or so many just (final minimum five!) in Sodom.

This means that God would have changed his plans if there had been more just people than Lot, wife, two daughters.

I e, God's plans are sometimes changeable.

With Noah we have evidence from after Genesis (1 or 2 Peter) that Noah preached, which would have been meaningless if God was going to destroy all whatever the reaction was. Obviously the reaction was not sufficient repentance to save the world from the Flood.

So, Fatima would perhaps be our last chance, as Noah was that of the pre-Flood world.

In quoting Luke 17 commentary (The Coming of the Kingdom of God) - Matthew Henry and William Barclay. Also, I really enjoyed reading Barclay's book series.

Matthew Henry:

That God took care for the preservation of those that were his, who believed and feared, and took the warning themselves which they gave to others.

Noah was a preacher of righteousness to the old world; so was Lot to the Sodomites. They gave them timely notice of what would be in the end of their wicked ways, and that it was not far off. [2.] That they did not regard the warning given them, and gave no credit, no heed to it. They were very secure, went on in their business as unconcerned as you could imagine; they did eat, they drank, indulged themselves in their pleasures, and took no care of any thing else, but to make provision for the flesh, counted upon the perpetuity of their present flourishing state, and therefore married wives, and were given in marriage, that their families might be built up. They were all very merry; so were the men of Sodom, and yet very busy too: they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded.

William Barclay:

"When that day comes the judgments of God will operate, and of two people, who all their lives lived side by side, one will be taken and the other left. There is a warning here. Intimacy with a good person does not necessarily guarantee our own salvation. "No man can deliver his brother." Is it not often true that a family is apt to leave the duties of church membership to one of its number? Is it not often true that a husband leaves the duties of the church to his wife? The judgment of God is an individual judgment. We cannot discharge our duty to God by proxy nor even by association. Often one will be taken and another left.

(iv) When they asked Jesus when all this would happen, he answered by quoting a well-known proverb. "Where the body is, there the vultures will be gathered together." That simply meant that a thing would happen when the necessary conditions were fulfilled. That means for us that God will bring Jesus Christ again in his good time. We cannot know that time; we dare not speculate about it. We must live so that whenever he comes, at morning, at midday or at evening, he will find us ready."

Eventually, only Lot and two of his daughters survive.

These above passage along with Genesis 6 (Noah and the flood) reads that the righteous were saved, Lot and his family and Noah and his family. In Luke 17, Jesus compares those two passages to the end of days or the end of times where the righteous are saved and not taken up? In Jewish text versus Christian text, are they totally opposite from one another? Luke 17, "
30 So it will be on the day the Son of Man is revealed."

[Marta]

So, Fatima would perhaps be our last chance, as Noah was that of the pre-Flood world.

Every day is a chance for salvation, I believe. There are those who are within our lives that will continually pray for us, ministers of the faith who we can talk with (and priest), and there are ways that we can stay within faith and the community. All these things are strengths and every day chances to change. You know, the church, venerates Mary for her obedience to God. Not only was Mary high venerated for her obedience but also, for her compassion, the ability to step back and grasp (as a whole) the wonders (miracles) that were seen by her, herself, "But Mary treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heartThe shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things they had heard and seen, which were just as they had been told.

[hansgeorg]

I have nothing against any of the things you positively said for Mary, but you seem to miss part of Her privileges.

Blessed is said four times of women in OT.

Two are blessed [in some limited respect] among women, Mary is [without such limitation] blessed among women.

Those are military awards.

Ruth is blessed because she gives Obed (?) a posterity and that posterity includes CHrist, Mary's child is Christ.

There is one more. Abigail stopped King David from killing an obnoxious man.

I think Mary has this kind of privilege too, since she says "all generations will call Her blessed" and this is broght fourth by Father Stephen Scheiner (?) who was being cpndened to Hell by Christ, but God's Mother interceded, he was revived.

[Marta]

I have nothing against any of the things you positively said for Mary, but you seem to miss part of Her privileges.

Blessed is said four times of women in OT.

Two are blessed [in some limited respect] among women, Mary is [without such limitation] blessed among women.

Those are military awards.

Ruth is blessed because she gives Obed (?) a posterity and that posterity includes CHrist, Mary's child is Christ.

There is one more. Abigail stopped King David from killing an obnoxious man.

I think Mary has this kind of privilege too, since she says "all generations will call Her blessed" and this is broght fourth by Father Stephen Scheiner (?) who was being cpndened to Hell by Christ, but God's Mother interceded, he was revived.

The Hebrew word yirah means both "to fear" and "to see." The essential choice of life is to open our eyes to available opportunities, and to fear the consequences of avoiding that reality.
We walk (Spiritually, as noted in the bible) with a constant awareness of God.

What does it mean to fear God? Deuteronomy 10:12-22

[Marta]

I have nothing against any of the things you positively said for Mary, but you seem to miss part of Her privileges.

Blessed is said four times of women in OT.

Two are blessed [in some limited respect] among women, Mary is [without such limitation] blessed among women.

Those are military awards.

Ruth is blessed because she gives Obed (?) a posterity and that posterity includes CHrist, Mary's child is Christ.

There is one more. Abigail stopped King David from killing an obnoxious man.

I think Mary has this kind of privilege too, since she says "all generations will call Her blessed" and this is broght fourth by Father Stephen Scheiner (?) who was being cpndened to Hell by Christ, but God's Mother interceded, he was revived.

Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God.a covenant for all generations to comeDo not be afraid, Abram.thy reward shall be exceeding greatHebrews 11), "11 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.

[One Bad Pig]

Sorry, I sort of lost interest in wading through hansgeorg's handwaving. However, I do want to respond to this:

I am not against the rosary if you choose to recite it, but you should always remember Jesus' command to not use a rehearsed prayer.

There is no such command. There is a prohibition against vain repetitions. Contextually, that is repeating prayers in hopes that thereby they will be heard.