Lack of Enthusiasm

[Teallaura]

Cool. Fair enough.

[Cow Poke]

Except a paycheck is not a reward.

Sure it is - by definition - "a thing given in recognition of one's service, effort, or achievement." It's just a pre-negotiated reward.

A paycheck is payment for services rendered.

Meh... I think that's semantics.

For me, I'm trying to state a mutually beneficial relationship between a church and me, i.e. being part of community.

Well, I've found that people come to Church largely for three reasons....

A) Out of a sense of responsibility, conscience, or guilt
2) To be ministered to
C) To minister

Sure, there are others, but it usually boils down to one or more of those.

So, let's look at --- what would your #1 priority be for deciding that a Church is acceptable to you.

For me, it would be that the Pastor is preaching the Word of God, and living what he's preaching. (The music and all the other stuff is secondary)

[footwasher]

[Thoughtful Monk]

I want my church to make me perfect (mature), able to teach, be a blessing to others:

Exactly and with a lot fewer words than I used!

[One Bad Pig]

Exactly and with a lot fewer words than I used!

Church should not be about what you expect to get out of it. That's quite possibly the worst criterion for finding a church, because it focuses on you. Christianity is about focusing on God and others, not on yourself.

[footwasher]

Exactly and with a lot fewer words than I used!

http://www.dfgc.ca/grow/image-bearing-pt-1

[Thoughtful Monk]

Church should not be about what you expect to get out of it. That's quite possibly the worst criterion for finding a church, because it focuses on you. Christianity is about focusing on God and others, not on yourself.

Either I am not being clear or you are not reading my posts. Kindly restate what I have said in this thread so I may determine if I am not clearly communicating or you are not carefully reading my posts or both is occurring. Thank you.

[One Bad Pig]

Either I am not being clear or you are not reading my posts. Kindly restate what I have said in this thread so I may determine if I am not clearly communicating or you are not carefully reading my posts or both is occurring. Thank you.

Perhaps I should have replied to footwasher instead, but the phrase you agreed with "exactly" was all about what the church can do for you. I am not saying that this is your general position in the thread. Does that help?

[Thoughtful Monk]

Perhaps I should have replied to footwasher instead, but the phrase you agreed with "exactly" was all about what the church can do for you. I am not saying that this is your general position in the thread. Does that help?

Thanks for clarifying.

What I responded exactly too was this one sentence by footwasher: "I want my church to make me perfect (mature), able to teach, be a blessing to others". The first part is about what the church can provide to me. I suggest the second two items are about what I can provide to the church.

Is the problem that we no longer understand what community means? I definitively include myself in this critique. Is it really church community we attend or a bunch of I's who happen to worship together at the same moment? I submit that community is a lost skill. We no longer know how to be mutually beneficial because we don't know how to be community. Its not taught anymore. Sermons are aimed at each individual to help each one grow as individuals. At best, we have fellowship and then go on our individualistic way.

[One Bad Pig]

Thanks for clarifying.

What I responded exactly too was this one sentence by footwasher: "I want my church to make me perfect (mature), able to teach, be a blessing to others". The first part is about what the church can provide to me. I suggest the second two items are about what I can provide to the church.

The way the sentence is constructed, the second two items are not about that; they are dependent on "I want my church to make me...."

Is the problem that we no longer understand what community means? I definitively include myself in this critique. Is it really church community we attend or a bunch of I's who happen to worship together at the same moment? I submit that community is a lost skill. We no longer know how to be mutually beneficial because we don't know how to be community. Its not taught anymore. Sermons are aimed at each individual to help each one grow as individuals. At best, we have fellowship and then go on our individualistic way.

And "smart"phones and earbuds are only making things worse in this regard.

One of the things I like about Orthodoxy is the sense of community with other Orthodox Christians and the saints (though I acknowledge that some Orthodox Christians tend to identify more with their ethnicity than Orthodoxy in general).

[Thoughtful Monk]

Well after way too long, my wife and I went to church today. Grace Church bought the building from a dying denominational church about 1 mile from our house and today was the first service in the new location.

The best news is my wife likes it and wants to go back next week. The congregation size is a good fit for our crowd comfort and a great mix of ages.

For me, some good points are the worship songs were God focused with no 7X11's, the sermon was based on the Bible, competently preached, and included far more "we", "us", "our" instead of "I", "you". They even did a corporate confession of sin.

Not sure this is it but its real possibility.

Thanks for all who were praying for us in this matter.

[Teallaura]

[Cow Poke]

Well after way too long, my wife and I went to church today. Grace Church bought the building from a dying denominational church about 1 mile from our house and today was the first service in the new location.

The best news is my wife likes it and wants to go back next week. The congregation size is a good fit for our crowd comfort and a great mix of ages.

For me, some good points are the worship songs were God focused with no 7X11's, the sermon was based on the Bible, competently preached, and included far more "we", "us", "our" instead of "I", "you". They even did a corporate confession of sin.

Not sure this is it but its real possibility.

Thanks for all who were praying for us in this matter.

I hope this works out for you guys!

[Rushing Jaws]

By going, is how.

[One Bad Pig]

unus christianus nullus christianus