Who is a Christian?

[footwasher]

The problem with studying Scripture is that we have to depend on commentaries that are mainly word centric, grammatico historical based, ie they depend on linguistics, on lexicons that provide word usages from archaeological documents and help explain how a word is used in biblical times,

Since a word has divergent meanings depending on contexts, we really need context resources to help us choose the particular usage of the word chosen by the writer, and lexicons cannot give us those contexts. Often We import modern contexts to the words and misunderstand the text.

New archaeological documents have surfaced which give clues to the contexts of the biblical material. The new commentaries are historical critical depending on studies of ancient cultures rather than studies of words . They give information about what cultural models existed when the words were used and offer more choices of interpretations for us to consider.

Faith, grace and justification are not :

1. mental assent of the sufficiency of the Cross , leading to
2. removal from the jurisdiction of law, leading to
3. receiving righteousness from Christ

but:

1. actively being loyal to God by turning away from sin
2. being rewarded with the gift of the Holy Spirit, leading to
3. making alive of our previously dead spirits

1. actively being loyal to God by turning away from sin
2. being rewarded with the label of REPENTANT, leading to
3. receiving protection from wrath

Similarly, sanctification is not

1. mental assent of the sufficiency of the Cross , leading to
2. removal from the jurisdiction of law, leading to
3. receiving righteousness from Christ

but

1. actively being loyal to God by turning away from sin through the Spirit
2. being rewarded with the making alive of our previously dead body, leading to
3. becoming an acceptable sacrificial offering

1. The sacrifice predicted in the old covenant and fulfilled by Christ is the Cross.
2. The Sabbath rest predicted and fulfilled is the rest in Christ.

Observing the requirements of the old Covenant of Law, gave safety, protection from the wrath of God. The Law was a guardian. The old covenant had rewards.

Depicting the righteous work of God by observing the requirements of the Covenant of Grace, gave gifts. Grace was a gift giver. The new covenant had better rewards, greater glory.

[Paprika]

Sort of. Salvation from one entails salvation from all three, however.

Entails in what sense?

[37818]

Every covenant, agreement, has requirements and rewards.

The old covenant had requirements (glorify God for His promise of a future deliverance) and rewards: (safety instructions, Torah, Law).

The new covenant had requirements (glorify God for a present deliverance) and rewards: (user instructions, Gospel, Grace).

The New Covenant is the one God alone keeps. The only part man can have in the New Covenant is to receive it as a gift, not as any kind of reward.

[footwasher]

The New Covenant is the one God alone keeps. The only part man can have in the New Covenant is to receive it as a gift, not as any kind of reward.

Show scriptural support for this view, please.

[37818]

Show scriptural support for this view, please.

". . . Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. . . ." -- Romans 4:4.

[One Bad Pig]

Entails in what sense?

Upon reconsideration, I perhaps should not have posted. The wrath of God is against the kingdom of darkness and its ruler, the satan. So if one is not of the kingdom of darkness, one is not an object of the wrath of God and one is not under the power of its ruler.

[footwasher]

". . . Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. . . ." -- Romans 4:4.

The one who is uncircumcised, Abraham, is contrasted with the one who is circumcised maybe 430 years later and God justified the law keeping person as His part of the agreement/covenant of Law. Abraham was uncircumcised when God justified him.

It does not contrast one who does not turn away from evil with one who does turn away from evil.

[footwasher]

Upon reconsideration, I perhaps should not have posted. The wrath of God is against the kingdom of darkness and its ruler, the satan. So if one is not of the kingdom of darkness, one is not an object of the wrath of God and one is not under the power of its ruler.

Israel left Egypt, Judas, Simon Magus, Ananias and Sapphira left following the world, on the promise of being led into God's rest. So it's possible to be out of the darkness without being immune from God's wrath. These are baptised believers being address here, whose spirits have been made alive and are seated with Christ in high places, advocating alongside him:

Romans 8:6For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

[One Bad Pig]

Israel left Egypt, Judas, Simon Magus, Ananias and Sapphira left following the world, on the promise of being led into God's rest. So it's possible to be out of the darkness without being immune from God's wrath. These are baptised believers being address here, whose spirits have been made alive and are seated with Christ in high places, advocating alongside him:

Romans 8:6For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Just because someone is baptized doesn't mean they've left the kingdom of darkness; one can be baptized under false pretenses. And Ananias and Sapphira fell prey to temptation.

[37818]

The one who is uncircumcised, Abraham, is contrasted with the one who is circumcised maybe 430 years later and God justified the law keeping person as His part of the agreement/covenant of Law. Abraham was uncircumcised when God justified him.

It does not contrast one who does not turn away from evil with one who does turn away from evil.

You are still arguing merit over grace. Which is a false gospel, BTW.


When God change Abram's name to Abraham, God add to the convent with Abraham.

"And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I [am] the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, As for me, behold, my covenant [is] with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which [is] not of thy seed. And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which [is] not of thy seed. He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. . . ."

While the promise was made to Abraham and his seed 430 years before the Law, the covenant of circumcision was given to Abraham 406 years before the Law.

[footwasher]

Delinking reward from merit makes nonsensical all those texts in Scripture that shows this happening. See merit receiving reward here:

Romans 8:13For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

[footwasher]

Just because someone is baptized doesn't mean they've left the kingdom of darkness; one can be baptized under false pretenses. And Ananias and Sapphira fell prey to temptation.

Israel traded the slave food of Egypt for the promise of milk and honey. Judas, Simon Magus, A & S traded working for worldy reward for reward in heaven. They should have persevered.

[Cow Poke]

Israel traded the slave food of Egypt for the promise of milk and honey.

PARTLY true.

[Adrift]

Are we talking about the same Simon Magus that was later accused by the early church fathers of founding the Gnostic cult called Simonianism, and whose disciples may have included Marcion?

[37818]

Delinking reward from merit makes nonsensical all those texts in Scripture that shows this happening. See merit receiving reward here:

Romans 8:13For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Again, "according to the flesh" is a matter of merit. "By the Spirit" is wholy of grace. "The deeds," merit, "of the body," that meaning the flesh.