Are Christians Afraid To Talk About the Devil?

[Cow Poke]

The exorcism just consists of the person turning and spitting on the floor, when prompted, as a rejection of Satan. Then the priest blesses them, telling all demons to leave in the name of Christ. The person is also anointed with oil beforehand.

This stands in contrast to the Anglican service which cut out the renunciation of Satan from their service book decades ago (not trying to throw rocks at anybody, just pointing out the difference).

Perhaps the person who had to clean up the spit from the floor was an Anglican.

[One Bad Pig]

The exorcism just consists of the person turning and spitting on the floor, when prompted, as a rejection of Satan. Then the priest blesses them, telling all demons to leave in the name of Christ. The person is also anointed with oil beforehand.

Sort of. There are three prayers at the beginning of the service essentially telling the devil and his minions to get lost. Facing west, the candidate renounces Satan three times, then spits on him. The candidate then turns east (toward the altar and in the traditional direction of prayer), promises to serve Christ three times, then recites the Creed. All this takes place in the narthex; the candidate then proceeds into the nave for the rest of the ceremony.

[One Bad Pig]

I don't get it. Why would a demon hang out at a tavern bored? Seems like they'd be continuously active if there really is a spiritual struggle in this world. And it sounds like the widow praying is doing some battling of her own if she's praying and they're attempting to distract her. I'm probably taking it too literal though...

The demon in the tavern is bored because it doesn't need to do anything; the people there are defeating themselves. You have characterized the other part of the story accurately.

[seanD]

Precisely. It isn't just merely about trying to delimit his capabilities, but taking stock of what he has done, is doing, and can be expected to do; where is his strongholds, what are his current strategies, and so on.

And I would think 2 Thess 2:9-12 and Ephesians 6:12 would especially be part of making effective disciples.

[Paprika]

And I would think 2 Thess 2:9-12 and Ephesians 6:12 would especially be part of making effective disciples.

We wrestle against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Paul through his letter encouraged and taught the Ephesian church how to stand against the devil and the powers, the shepherds must now also do the same or risk danger to the flock.

[Cow Poke]

And I would think 2 Thess 2:9-12 and Ephesians 6:12 would especially be part of making effective disciples.

So, are you DOING that? Are you making effective disciples?

[seanD]

So, are you DOING that? Are you making effective disciples?

Probably not over the internet where this discussion is taking place, so I don't see how it's relevant to the discussion here.

[Cow Poke]

Probably not over the internet where this discussion is taking place, so I don't see how it's relevant to the discussion here.

Because there seems to be a whole lot of people who seem to know what OTHERS should be doing, but when asked what THEY are doing, they hide behind goofy nonsense like "I don't see how that's relevant to the discussion here".

If you were giving advice on carpentry, would it be fair to ask you if you've done carpentry in real life? Plumbing? Baking?

Between this nonsense "how is that relevant here" and hiding behind "credentialism"... or "the Bible says not to let the left hand know what the right hand is doing".....

Why don't you just be honest, Sean... you don't know the FIRST THING about "making disciples" in real life, but you'll spout off about it "on the internet".

[seanD]

Because there seems to be a whole lot of people who seem to know what OTHERS should be doing, but when asked what THEY are doing, they hide behind goofy nonsense like "I don't see how that's relevant to the discussion here".

If you were giving advice on carpentry, would it be fair to ask you if you've done carpentry in real life? Plumbing? Baking?

Between this nonsense "how is that relevant here" and hiding behind "credentialism"... or "the Bible says not to let the left hand know what the right hand is doing".....

Why don't you just be honest, Sean... you don't know the FIRST THING about "making disciples" in real life, but you'll spout off about it "on the internet".

Ah, so this is a pulling rank type of thing -- you disciple more than I do, therefore I should just shut up about the subject. But I'm not sure where I stepped on your toes or where I showed any more "credentialism" than anyone else. I was just engaging in the discussion of whether or not Christians are reluctant about the subject of the devil. I believe they definitely are and I added another point to the discussion; that they oftentimes downplay his involvement in contrast to what scripture clearly points out about his power and reach. However, others shared the same view I did, so I don't understand why you took it personal with just me.

[Cow Poke]

Ah, so this is a pulling rank type of thing -- you disciple more than I do, therefore I should just shut up about the subject.

But I'm not sure where I stepped on your toes in regards to "credentialism."

That was somebody else, and it wasn't "stepping on my toes" --- it was nonsense.

I was just engaging in the discussion of whether or not Christians are reluctant about the subject of the devil. I believe they definitely are and I added another caveat to the discussion; that they oftentimes downplay his involvement in contrast to what scripture clearly points out about his power and reach. However, others shared the same view I did, so I don't understand why you took it personal with just me.

I asked a simple question, Sean, which you seem "reluctant" to answer.

You had advice about making "effective disciples"....

And I would think 2 Thess 2:9-12 and Ephesians 6:12 would especially be part of making effective disciples.

I think it's legitimate to ask what you really know about that in real life.

[seanD]

That was somebody else, and it wasn't "stepping on my toes" --- it was nonsense.



I asked a simple question, Sean, which you seem "reluctant" to answer.

You had advice about making "effective disciples"....



I think it's legitimate to ask what you really know about that in real life.

I didn't answer the question because a) I rarely talk about things I do outside the internet in the real world and b) because I didn't see it as relevant to the discussion. You were hounding me about making disciples before I even said anything about "effective disciples." Tell you what, you ignore my posts and I'll ignore your posts.

[Scrawly]

I think one of the devil's modus operandi is to turn the brethren against one another.

"so that no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his schemes." (2Cor. 2:11).

[Cow Poke]

I didn't answer the question because a) I rarely talk about things I do outside the internet in the real world and b) because I didn't see it as relevant to the discussion. You were hounding me about making disciples before I even said anything about "effective disciples." Tell you what, you ignore my posts and I'll ignore your posts.

Hounding you?

I would think that anybody who actually WAS involved in discipling would LOVE to discuss it, rather than get all defensive about it, Sean.

Do you not believe that "the great commission" (or whatever you might want to call it) was a general instruction to all Christ followers? Or you think, perhaps, that's only something that applied to those who were standing there when Jesus "commissioned" them?

What "eternal value" is there in talking ABOUT discipleship, and not actually being INVOLVED in it?

I just don't understand why so many Christians seem afraid (reluctant?) to talk about it. What good is "talking about the devil" if we aren't ALSO talking about accepting Christ as Savior, or following him in Baptism, or growing in Christ as disciples? You will be known by your "fruit".... Matthew 7 warns about judging, but it also talks about inspecting fruit.

It is simply astounding to me that so many Christians....


Yeah, I'm wasting my time.

[Cow Poke]

I think one of the devil's modus operandi is to turn the brethren against one another.

"so that no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his schemes." (2Cor. 2:11).

There's a context to that. That phrase didn't happen in a vacuum....

[Scrawly]

There's a context to that. That phrase didn't happen in a vacuum....

5 If anyone has caused grief, he has not so much grieved me as he has grieved all of you to some extent—not to put it too severely. 6 The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient. 7 Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. 8 I urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him. 9 Another reason I wrote you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything. 10 Anyone you forgive, I also forgive. And what I have forgiven—if there was anything to forgive—I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake, 11 in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.

Sure and I think my application is a valid one. I think one of the schemes of the devil is to divide the brethren against one another. That's all I'm saying and I used a verse that I think has modern day application.