Joseph of Arimathea Buying Linen On Passover?

[Adrift]

I already quoted from Jesus where he specifically says that even his opponents allowed for certain work to be done on the sabbath. We don't have to look at any extrabiblical sources. It's right there in the Bible. This whole thread is a non-issue.

I don't believe it's as simple as that, as outlined in my previous posts. You're free to leave the thread if you think it's a non-issue though.

[Adrift]

so was the actual passover on thursday or friday? because they ate the passover on thursday and Jesus was crucified and died on friday.
According to your quote of:
Exodus 12:16 On the first day you shall have a holy assembly, and another holy assembly on the seventh day; no work at all shall be done on them, except what must be eaten by every person, that alone may be prepared by you.

it seems like only on the first and seventh day are you not to work.

edit: never mind I forgot about the Jewish day being from sundown to sundown.

No, no, you actually hit on a point of tension between the Synoptics and John. Craig breaks it down in the link I provided,



One resolution to this tension can be found in understanding that two reckonings of time used in Palestine. One was Galilean/Pharisaic measure of time, the other was Judean/Sadduceeic measure of time.

[Sparko]

so if John's timeline is right, then they ate the passover early because Jesus was going to die on passover. but does that mean that the "do not work" edict did not start until Friday at 6pm so Jeoseph could still buy linen legally?

[Adrift]

so if John's timeline is right, then they ate the passover early because Jesus was going to die on passover.

That's correct, but there's no reason to assume that either timeline is wrong exactly. It could be that both timelines are correct, and that they just happen to cross over thanks to the difference in calendars.

but does that mean that the "do not work" edict did not start until Friday at 6pm so Jeoseph could still buy linen legally?

No, because since Friday was (still) Passover, there was a double Sabbath. The "do not work" edict would have been effect for both Friday and Saturday (and late Thursday).

One of the big issues that tends to confuse people is that Jesus died on Preparation Day, but preparation for what? Preparation for Passover, or preparation of the Sabbath. Most Christians think that Jesus likely died on Passover, which would have been that Friday, which would have also been Preparation Day for the Sabbath.

It's all kinda confusing, I know. I'm still trying to make sure I got it all sorted in my head as well. This is the conclusion to the calendar dilemma I mentioned in the post above,

[psstein]

As you're no doubt aware, it doesn't have to be an either/or. There are solutions that account for both the Synoptic and Johannine reading. William Lane Craig offers one that I think carries some weight here.

I'd have to investigate further into different calendars being used. From what I remember about the Jewish calendar, there was a dispute between the Qumran community and the Temple cult as to whether or not a lunar or a solar calendar should be used. DSS scholars have argued, consequently, that the debate over the calendar led to the creation of the Qumran community.

However, I don't know if we can necessarily extrapolate that debate to early Christians.

[Sparko]

Joseph could have gotten the cloth and paid for it later

[Adrift]

I'd have to investigate further into different calendars being used. From what I remember about the Jewish calendar, there was a dispute between the Qumran community and the Temple cult as to whether or not a lunar or a solar calendar should be used. DSS scholars have argued, consequently, that the debate over the calendar led to the creation of the Qumran community.

However, I don't know if we can necessarily extrapolate that debate to early Christians.

Well we wouldn't be extrapolating the debate to early Christians, but to early Jews. Well, okay, Jewish Christians. It could be that one group of Christians, a Judean group got the story one way, and another group, a Galilean group got it the other way due to when they were looking at their watches (in a manner of speaking). The only time we would see this confusion is during the Passion narrative (and maybe slightly after) since that's the only time a large group of Galileans would encounter a large group of Judeans (that I'm aware of), and Jesus' main body of disciples, including himself, being Galilean, well there you go.

[Adrift]

Joseph could have gotten the cloth and paid for it later

That is true, but I suppose the question would be why? Was he expecting someone to die? Did he know that Jesus was going to be executed on Passover?

[Sparko]

That is true, but I suppose the question would be why? Was he expecting someone to die? Did he know that Jesus was going to be executed on Passover?

No I mean he needed a cloth so he went to someone and asked for it saying he will pay for it after the sabbath. He was given the cloth and he took it and buried Jesus

Just a conjecture

[seanD]

1. I don't see why buying an item (or even selling an item) would necessarily even count as work.
2. Regardless, the law clearly allowed certain urgent work to be done on the sabbath.

Luke 14:5-6
And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day? And they could not answer him again to these things.

Without even being an expert on the law as applied to Second Temple Judaism, my first guess, based on pure logic, would be that if two laws conflict -- i.e. keeping the Sabbath and burying a corpse -- the one would trump the other. Burying the body had more priority in this case

[Adrift]

No I mean he needed a cloth so he went to someone and asked for it saying he will pay for it after the sabbath. He was given the cloth and he took it and buried Jesus

Just a conjecture

Oh ok, right, well that would go perfectly well with the Mishnah passage I mentioned earlier I think.

[Cow Poke]

so if John's timeline is right, then they ate the passover early because Jesus was going to die on passover. but does that mean that the "do not work" edict did not start until Friday at 6pm so Jeoseph could still buy linen legally?

I think there has always been an allowance for burial preparation, because they didn't wait 3 or 4 days like we do to bury, and the didn't embalm. They buried as soon as practical, so it was acceptable to make preparation accordingly.

[Sparko]

I think there has always been an allowance for burial preparation, because they didn't wait 3 or 4 days like we do to bury, and the didn't embalm. They buried as soon as practical, so it was acceptable to make preparation accordingly.

Yeah I would think so

Another thought is that he could have gotten the cloth from a gentile merchant

[Just Passing Through]

[Adrift]

Wow! That's great Just Passing Through. That really helps. My German is so bad. I could pick up on a lot of that, but I couldn't tie the ends together. Thanks! I think the reason I thought "Das." was a tractate was because it has passage numbering after it. Duh.

Well that opens a whole nuther sort of thinking on the subject. Very interesting stuff.