Originally posted by Sparko
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This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.
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John 20:28, My Lord and My God
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If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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John 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostJohn 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus ChristIf it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThe Word is the second person of the Trinity, God the Son. Who became "Jesus" when he took on flesh. They are the same person.
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth (John 1:14).Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostInterestingly, in the Jewish Targums (Aramaic paraphrases of the Hebrew scriptures), "the Word of the Lord" is often a metonymy for "YHWH". Positing that John was familiar with the Jewish Targums and used language from them provides an explanation for much of the unique language John used in his gospel (and helps tie the epistles of John and Revelation to the same writer as well).Last edited by Unitarian101; 12-18-2019, 05:46 PM.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostJohn 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ
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Originally posted by Unitarian101 View PostI'm not the one asserting that the bible teaches that God is a Trinity of "persons" . Ever heard of onus probandi ?
Jesus is also said to be the ultimate judge over all. and the creator. And is one with the Father.
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Originally posted by Unitarian101 View PostI'll just take the first one for now, John 20:28 -- Here we have a TSKTS (Ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου) construction which means that the exclamation has two people in mind, "My Lord" (meaning Jesus) and "my God" (meaning the Father, living in Jesus). Check John Chapter 14 (verse, 9 etc) for context..Last edited by Sparko; 12-19-2019, 09:30 AM.
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Originally posted by Unitarian101 View PostHow many times is the word ὁ λόγος / λόγος used in the GNT ?
I'm not posting here to shake you from your obduracy; I'm merely providing an interesting observation to others (which happens to make your argument moot).Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Unitarian101 View PostI'll just take the first one for now, John 20:28 -- Here we have a TSKTS (Ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου) construction which means that the exclamation has two people in mind, "My Lord" (meaning Jesus) and "my God" (meaning the Father, living in Jesus). Check John Chapter 14 (verse, 9 etc) for context..If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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I think that the reason that people hold to these heresies is due to the distinction we tend to see, especially in Paul's letters. Paul often speaks of God and Jesus distinctly. However, this distinction doesn't require that Jesus not be God incarnate (in accord with the Trinity description). The reason that Jesus is mentioned distinctly is because he is the one who was seen in the flesh -- and of course is the central act of God in redeeming humanity. Due to his centrality and being of flesh among us, he is the physical embodiment of the message of God to humanity. He is the priest that suffered all the things that we suffer. We then should find it rather natural that Jesus isn't blended inconspicuously into the Godhead in Paul's writing.
Unitarian, it is roughly possible that the Trinity doctrine is lacking in some sense. As I have told JWs, you need to come out with an exhaustive explanation of your view in order to overcome the Trinity argument; otherwise, it is shaky ground to just say that you have a better idea -- it is worse that you try to promote your idea without overcoming the Trinity doctrine in its fullest expression.
Which rejected view do you hold?
1. Jesus was born purely flesh but was filled with Deity at the baptism
2. Jesus was human flesh but the mind of God from birth
3. Jesus, from birth, had conflicting will of the human will and God's will
4. Jesus only appeared to have a human body
5. Jesus was a lower form of deity
There are possibly some other choices at this site: https://coldcasechristianity.com/wri...ture-of-jesus/
All of these heresies remove the basis (or consistency) for God's justification of humanity through Jesus' life, death on the cross and resurrection.
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