Originally posted by Geert van den Bos
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This is where we come to delve into the biblical text. Theology is not our foremost thought, but we realize it is something that will be dealt with in nearly every conversation. Feel free to use the original languages to make your point (meaning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic). This is an exegetical discussion area, so please limit topics to purely biblical ones.
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This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.
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John 20:28, My Lord and My God
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1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostEven if that was so (which seems wholly unlikely) - Jesus was claiming to pre-exist Abraham. Of course, that claim does not of itself establish Jesus as God, but it does declare his continuing existence long before Jesus of Nazareth came to be.
Like also in John 1:1.14 Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος (...) Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο
"to become" seems to denote a process in time, while "to be" seems to denote something that is (ever)lasting.
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Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View PostThere are two verbs in the sentence, γίνομαι = to become and εἶναι = to be
Like also in John 1:1.14 Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος (...) Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο
"to become" seems to denote a process in time, while "to be" seems to denote something that is (ever)lasting.
ην = (technically) "was being."
** ah - finally is revealed how "everlasting" comes to be in the picture . NO. The grammatical infinitive has nothing to do with being eternal.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View PostThere are two verbs in the sentence, γίνομαι = to become and εἶναι = to be
Like also in John 1:1.14 Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος (...) Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο
"to become" seems to denote a process in time, while "to be" seems to denote something that is (ever)lasting.
καὶ ἦν
He was there for a specific period of time, and not for "everlasting."
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him; and without him [a]was not anything made that hath been made. ...14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us
1. The Word was God.
2. The Word made flesh was Jesus.
Therefore Jesus is God.
Other places Jesus is called God:
Col. 1:16-17 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
John 8:58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I AM!" [uses the name of God]
John 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ
Also, it's kind of nonsensical to say that someone was God, we say someone is God (especially if he is the God of the Bible).Last edited by Unitarian101; 12-13-2019, 08:14 PM.
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Originally posted by Unitarian101 View PostNotice though that the text says the Word was a divine something , not that Jesus was God. Big difference. The Word prior to becoming flesh (i.e. a human being) is not Jesus. Remember, the Jesus of the bible is a human being. We have to be careful to not add into what Scripture really says.
Also, it's kind of nonsensical to say that someone was God, we say someone is God (especially if he is the God of the Bible).If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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Originally posted by Unitarian101 View PostNotice though that the text says the Word was a divine something , not that Jesus was God. Big difference. The Word prior to becoming flesh (i.e. a human being) is not Jesus. Remember, the Jesus of the bible is a human being. We have to be careful to not add into what Scripture really says.
Also, it's kind of nonsensical to say that someone was God, we say someone is God (especially if he is the God of the Bible).
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth (John 1:14).
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThe Word is the second person of the Trinity, God the Son. Who became "Jesus" when he took on flesh. They are the same person.
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth (John 1:14).
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