Originally posted by Geert van den Bos
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This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.
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John 20:28, My Lord and My God
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from which it can be inferredthat explicitly declare him to be the equal of God.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
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Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View PostIt proves that John was written during the reign of Domitian
http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post...1.aspx#Article
cf. John 19:12, the Jews cried out,
v. 15,
v.12 Greek οἱ δὲ Ἰουδαῖοι ἐκραύγασαν λέγοντες, Ἐὰν τοῦτον ἀπολύσῃς, οὐκ εἶ φίλος τοῦ Καίσαρος: πᾶς ὁ βασιλέα ἑαυτὸν ποιῶν ἀντιλέγει τῷ Καίσαρι.
φίλος = friend
cf. John 15:13, μείζονα ταύτης ἀγάπην οὐδεὶς ἔχει, ἵνα τις τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ θῇ ὑπὲρ τῶν φίλων αὐτοῦ. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life (soul) for his friends.
and also John 11:3, Κύριε, ἴδε ὃν φιλεῖς ἀσθενεῖ. Master, see the one you love (= your friend) is sickOur friend Lazarus
ἀντιλέγω = to speak against, contradict, oppose
= Hebrew "satar"
"soteir" = opposer, denier
denier Greek ἀρνούμενος
1 John 2:22,
Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.
"soteir" written "samech -vav - tav- resh" in numbers "60-6-400-200" = 666, the number mentioned in Revelation 13:18
http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post...1.aspx#Article
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostIn the text Thomas explicitly address Jesus as his Lord and God. ". . . And Thomas answered and said unto Him, . . ." . . . και απεκριθη ο θωμας και ειπεν αυτω . . . .
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Originally posted by Bibleuser View Post... of which there may be many, as well as to the supreme or absolute supernatural being.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View PostIt proves that John was written during the reign of Domitian
http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post...1.aspx#Article
cf. John 19:12, the Jews cried out,
v. 15,
v.12 Greek οἱ δὲ Ἰουδαῖοι ἐκραύγασαν λέγοντες, Ἐὰν τοῦτον ἀπολύσῃς, οὐκ εἶ φίλος τοῦ Καίσαρος: πᾶς ὁ βασιλέα ἑαυτὸν ποιῶν ἀντιλέγει τῷ Καίσαρι.
φίλος = friend
cf. John 15:13, μείζονα ταύτης ἀγάπην οὐδεὶς ἔχει, ἵνα τις τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ θῇ ὑπὲρ τῶν φίλων αὐτοῦ. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life (soul) for his friends.
and also John 11:3, Κύριε, ἴδε ὃν φιλεῖς ἀσθενεῖ. Master, see the one you love (= your friend) is sickOur friend Lazarus
ἀντιλέγω = to speak against, contradict, oppose
= Hebrew "satar"
"soteir" = opposer, denier
denier Greek ἀρνούμενος
1 John 2:22,
Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.
"soteir" written "samech -vav - tav- resh" in numbers "60-6-400-200" = 666, the number mentioned in Revelation 13:18
http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post...1.aspx#Article
Αὕτη ἡ ἀσθένεια οὐκ ἔστιν πρὸς θάνατον ἀλλ' ὑπὲρ τῆς δόξης τοῦ θεοῦ, ἵνα δοξασθῇ ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ δι' αὐτῆς.
One man was there who had been sick for thirty-eight years. , since 38 is gematria of "chol" = profane.
cf. Rashi on Genesis 2:2, And God completed on the seventh day:
Rabbi Shimon said: [A human being of] flesh and blood, who cannot know his times and his moments, must add from the profane to the holy The Holy One, blessed be He, Who knows His times and His moments [exactly], entered it [the Sabbath] within a hairbreadth.
which is about the same -- biggest mystery of the bible.
δόξα glory
also in John 1:14,
καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ and we saw it's glory
δόξα τοῦ θεοῦ glory of God --
also in John 11:39-40
Κύριε, ἤδη ὄζει, τεταρταῖος γάρ ἐστιν. λέγει αὐτῇ ὁ Ἰησοῦς, Οὐκ εἶπόν σοι ὅτι ἐὰν πιστεύσῃς ὄψῃ τὴν δόξαν τοῦ θεοῦ;
Sir, he smells already, for it is the fourth day. Jesus said to her; "Didn't i tell you that if you believe you will see the glory of God"
which refers back to v.25 . "
To be the resurrection he had to die first.
The calling Lazarus from his grave was the ultimate reason for the chief priests and Pharisees to have him put to death
v. 53, So from that day on they made plans to put him to death
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Originally posted by 37818 View Post". . . know and believe Me, and understand that I am He: before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me. I, even I, am Jehovah; and besides Me there is no Saviour. . . ." -- Isaiah 43:10-11.
So as Jesus had not yet been and gone to become "saviour" he was the only one until He sent Jesus to do that job.
So please get the context right.
BU
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Originally posted by Bibleuser View PostHe was addressing the Jews herein NOT Followers of Jesus but followers of Moses & The Law!
So as Jesus had not yet been and gone to become "saviour" he was the only one until He sent Jesus to do that job.
So please get the context right.
BU. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostSince when? Did Jehovah lie? What did the Apostle Peter argue regarding all the prophets calling Jesus? ". . . To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins. . . . " -- Acts 10:43.
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Originally posted by Bibleuser View Postsavioursother saviors besides the Lord Jehovah. Also you do not point to the following scriptures that speak of other saviorssaviourthou gavest them saviours. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Bibleuser View PostHe was addressing the Jews herein NOT Followers of Jesus but followers of Moses & The Law!
So as Jesus had not yet been and gone to become "saviour" he was the only one until He sent Jesus to do that job.
So please get the context right.
BU
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It might be noted that the name Lazarus, Λάζαρος, is Greek form of Hebrew name Eliezer, a.o. the name of Abraham's servant.
the name Eliezer , אֱלִיעֶֽזֶר, does mean "my God is help" -- in Greek it would be " ὁ θεός μου βοηθός "
So Thomas' saying : Ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου might well refer to the story of Lazarus
(the number of Eliezer's name is 318, the number of Abram's trained servants (initiates) mentioned in Genesis 14:14, with which Abram gained victory over the four kings in favor of the five, about which Psalms 110 was written, from which the sitting of Jesus'sitting at the right hand of God is derived)
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostBut "before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me." so Jesus is not a God then. Yet John 1 says he is. If Jesus is a God and God said that no Gods would be formed before or after him, then Jesus must be a false God? Why do you follow a false God, BU?
http://www.septuagint.org/NT/John/1
Nowhere it says that Jesus is or was God.
John 1:14,
Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο = and the word becmae flesh
it refers back to the word mentioned in v. 1
The word of which the following verses say that it is not some dead thing, like a Christian dogma, but that there is light in it, a light the darkness can not catch.
Now light is Hebrew "or" -- first mentioning in Genesis 1:3 and of which Genesis 1:4 says that God saw the light to be good.
Good = Hebrew "tov", with gematria 17,
153, the number mentioned in John 21:11, = trianggle 17
Now the third "tov" of Genesis, mentioned in Genesis 1:12, is the 153rd word from the beginning,
In Genesis 1:11 the earth was asked to sprout forth "etz pri oseh pri" (fruit tree that makes fruit) , but in Genesis 1:12 it is stated that the earth brought forth "etz oseh pri" (tree making fruit)
If the earth had done what God had asked, in bringing forth "etz pri oseh pri" , then the "tov" in Genesis 1:12 would have been the 154th word. (which wouldn't have been good at all, since God saw it to be good that the earth brought forth "etz oseh pri")
This being the big secret of scripture.
Also worded as "felix culpa"
Without sin there is also no forgiveness of sin.
Lazarus ( = Eliezer) being the one to figure out these thingsLast edited by Geert van den Bos; 01-18-2018, 06:48 AM.
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Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Postyou might reconsideer John 1, and not in some crooked translation, but in the original Greek
http://www.septuagint.org/NT/John/1
Nowhere it says that Jesus is or was God.
John 1:14,
Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο = and the word becmae flesh
it refers back to the word mentioned in v. 1
The word of which the following verses say that it is not some dead thing, like a Christian dogma, but that there is light in it, a light the darkness can not catch.
Now light is Hebrew "or" -- first mentioning in Genesis 1:3 and of which Genesis 1:4 says that God saw the light to be good.
Good = Hebrew "tov", with gematria 17,
153, the number mentioned in John 21:11, = trianggle 17
Now the third "tov" of Genesis, mentioned in Genesis 1:12, is the 153rd word from the beginning,
In Genesis 1:11 the earth was asked to sprout forth "etz pri oseh pri" (fruit tree that makes fruit) , but in Genesis 1:12 it is stated that the earth brought forth "etz oseh pri" (tree making fruit)
If the earth had done what God had asked, in bringing forth "etz pri oseh pri" , then the "tov" in Genesis 1:12 would have been the 154th word. (which wouldn't have been good at all, since God saw it to be good that the earth brought forth "etz oseh pri")
This being the big secret of scripture.
Also worded as "felix culpa"
Without sin there is also no forgiveness of sin.
Lazarus ( = Eliezer) being the one to figure out these things
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