Batman V Superman

[Christianbookworm]

Yeah, he can take a film covering the S on his costume and throw it at them temporarily... wrapping them... up in cellophane... Okay, what was up with that?

Silver age was wacky. The Superman in those old movies was able to time travel. And for some reason, he needed some Superman themed gadget.

Why would it be suicidal to fight Superman? If he's a good guy, he won't try to kill you. Of course there is the possibility that Superman could accidentally kill a human combatant. Have any stories ever been written about that?

[rogue06]

Silver age was wacky. The Superman in those old movies was able to time travel. And for some reason, he needed some Superman themed gadget.

Why would it be suicidal to fight Superman? If he's a good guy, he won't try to kill you. Of course there is the possibility that Superman could accidentally kill a human combatant. Have any stories ever been written about that?

weren't no accident


ETA: Neither was this

[Christianbookworm]

weren't no accident


ETA: Neither was this

One's an evil clone and the other one was an alternate unverse version that went nuts after the Flash was killed. There seem to be several versions of Clark that become evil after Lois is killed violently. Clark doesn't seem to take his friends being murdered very well. First rule of keeping Clark from becoming a bad guy must be to keep his friends and family safe from being murder victims.

[rogue06]

One's an evil clone and the other one was an alternate unverse version that went nuts after the Flash was killed. There seem to be several versions of Clark that become evil after Lois is killed violently. Clark doesn't seem to take his friends being murdered very well. First rule of keeping Clark from becoming a bad guy must be to keep his friends and family safe from being murder victims.

I thought the first was the result of being affected by red kryptonite.

[NorrinRadd]

Didn't Timm also do one where Big Blue was going to kill Darkseid, but Bats stopped him? I seem to recall a line like "You're not always right, Bruce" in some such context.

[Adrift]

weren't no accident


ETA: Neither was this

Going back to Superman II, he also kills all three Kryptonians, and if I recall correctly he also kills that robot lady in Superman III. At any rate, the idea that Superman and Batman shouldn't kill is outdated. They should get with the times.

[NorrinRadd]

Going back to Superman II, he also kills all three Kryptonians, ...

Uhh... Wut?

[NorrinRadd]

Silver age was wacky. The Superman in those old movies was able to time travel. And for some reason, he needed some Superman themed gadget.

SA Superman and Superboy time-traveled more often than I've been out of my home state. That's how SASB could be a member of the Legion of Super Heroes 1000 years in the future. Speedsters who could go FTL could "break the time barrier." Regarding the Legion itself, those lacking FTL speed could time-travel in the Time Bubbles developed by Brainiac V.

I actually liked that "Superman themed gadget." It made sense that the One Crystal to Rule Them All, or whatever, would have included in the accumulated knowledge of the 28 Known Galaxies, and the ability to replicate Kryptonian tech on earth, the ability to create weapons capable of at least slowing down yellow-sun-powered nemeses.

OTOH, I had mixed views -- AT BEST -- toward the creation of yet more wacky new powers, like the finger-tip multi-function rays, and the abilities to vanish, teleport, and create interactive self-holograms.

Why would it be suicidal to fight Superman? If he's a good guy, he won't try to kill you. Of course there is the possibility that Superman could accidentally kill a human combatant. Have any stories ever been written about that?

It was a frequently recurring theme that Supes always had to hold back and keep himself tightly controlled.

In one issue of Superboy, Clark got so frustrated that he finagled some kind of gizmo to use green K to gradually depower himself so he could be a normal teen and, among other things, get into a boxing match with a rival and not worry about killing him. He planned to let his SB robots take over the super-duties. Through some fluke that was NEVER EXPLAINED, the robots also were unexpectedly depowered. So when a super-need predictably arose, Clark had to take the desperate step of making an "antidote" of some kind of green-K smoothie, drinking it, and almost dying before reviving fully repowered.

Yeah, some crazy stuff in the Silver Age.

[NorrinRadd]

Didn't you watch Superman II? He doesn't need no silly normie dressed like a bat to teach him how to fight bad guys that are as strong as he is.

He needed trickery and the "Molecule Chamber" (or possibly the Red Sun Chamber in the Donner Cut) to depower Zod, Ursa, and Non. Super-fighting was destroying Metropolis.

[Cerebrum123]

Well, yeah. No matter how much Marvel hates Peter Parker, they're not going to kill him off forever.

Well, there is that one universe where he's rich, successful, Uncle Ben is alive, and everyone likes him. So he doesn't always get the short end of the stick.

[Cerebrum123]

He can punch a hole through a planet. Why would he need Batman to train him? If anything, Batman needs someone to give him superpowers. Maybe if he slipped on Hal Jordan's ring... (wait, who's the current Green Lantern? meh, stupid DC with their stupid character retcons and replacements)

I know Batman was part of the Sinestro Corp for a while. Fear fits Batman's theme better anyway. Yellow is part of certain of his older costumes too.

[Adrift]

Uhh... Wut?

Probably depends on what version you watched, but at the end of the film Superman reverses the red sun effect on Zod, Non, and Ursa. He then crushes Zod's hand, and tosses him into a wall where he plunges into a pit (which would've surely killed him at this point), then Non tries to fly, and falls into the pit, and then Lois gives Ursa a good right cross, and she falls into the pit too. Then, as if to make sure that there's no chance that they survived, he destroys the Fortress of Solitude with his heat vision as he and Lois are leaving.

[Adrift]

He needed trickery and the "Molecule Chamber" (or possibly the Red Sun Chamber in the Donner Cut) to depower Zod, Ursa, and Non. Super-fighting was destroying Metropolis.

Exactly. Batman's greatest strength isn't in his actual fighting technique, but to make an elaborate plan come together. Superman II goes to show that Superman already has that ability. Ain't nothin Batman can teach Supes.

[Adrift]

I know Batman was part of the Sinestro Corp for a while. Fear fits Batman's theme better anyway. Yellow is part of certain of his older costumes too.

Well, whatever it takes. Guy is too weak. Give him some superpowers already.

[Christianbookworm]

That was a different version of Superman
Oddly, Clark is often more competent when working alone than when teamed up with others. Of course, part of the reason would be focusing on his team mate's safety. Because Clark plays guardian angel a lot.