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Tom Delay says "God wrote the Constitution."

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  • Tom Delay says "God wrote the Constitution."

    On the Matthew Hagee show "The Difference," Tom Delay asserts that all of our problems are due to secularism. He accuses Americans of forgetting "that God created this nation [and] that He wrote the Constitution, that it's based on biblical principles."

    While I normally take the website (Right Wing Watch) with a large grain of salt regarding their analysis of events, they do at least include the source video: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conten...e-constitution

    Dominionism may not be as dead as some think.

  • #2
    Someone should ask him, "Did God write the Amendments, too?"
    I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Outis View Post
      On the Matthew Hagee show "The Difference," Tom Delay asserts that all of our problems are due to secularism. He accuses Americans of forgetting "that God created this nation [and] that He wrote the Constitution, that it's based on biblical principles."

      While I normally take the website (Right Wing Watch) with a large grain of salt regarding their analysis of events, they do at least include the source video: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conten...e-constitution

      Dominionism may not be as dead as some think.
      I assume that your underlying point here will be that you're troubled about religious influence on western politics, which is why such statement concern you. But let me first preference my response by saying that contrary to erroneous belief among non-theists, Christians have very little influence in political matters other than minor ones. If they had as much political power as is assumed and feared by some, abortion would be illegal, prayer and bibles would be allowed in public schools, and we'd most likely see less raunch in the media. Point being, in the big picture, they have no influence at all when it comes to major issues. And before you mention the Iraq/Afghanistan wars because of your assumption that Bush was somehow influenced by Christian ideas (and I say this because it's something always brought up in these discussions), many influential voices on "the left" were just as adamant in pushing those wars as well as wars and military actions that are occurring after Bush. And it's not like Christianity is making any sort of dramatic comeback; if anything, it's on the decline. So, after considering all that, why would that statement bother you one way or the other?
      "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seanD View Post
        Christians have very little influence in political matters other than minor ones.
        This is not a matter of Christians having "influence." This is a matter of desiring, and of working towards, an electoral victory by dishonest means--and of using Christians as the unwitting rubes in such a plan.

        Delay does not want a theocracy or a theonomy. Delay wants political power: he has been a dirty politician from the beginning; has repeatedly, misused federal power, and sold influence; and has stopped bills that actually matched his stated Christian worldview, but that were politically inconvenient. He is willing, able, and eager to spout a line of hogwash to sell to the rubes, but is not willing to act on his promises. For Delay, his stated "Christian" principles take a distant second to personal and political power.

        So, after considering all that, why would that statement bother you one way or the other?
        Because there are Christians who want to do precisely the things I mentioned in the paragraphs above. And because money talks, and some of these people have a lot of money, and are willing to spend it to achieve their goals.

        (To dispense with the other possible counter-argument that you brought up, no, I quite agree that attributing the Iraq war to Christian thought is ludicrous in the extreme.)

        Comment


        • #5
          Tom just doesn't know that the US Constitution REALLY came from the Iroquois Confederacy Articles.

          Seriously, Tom Delay has been a very big disappointment to a lot of us in Texas.
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Outis View Post
            This is not a matter of Christians having "influence." This is a matter of desiring, and of working towards, an electoral victory by dishonest means--and of using Christians as the unwitting rubes in such a plan.

            Delay does not want a theocracy or a theonomy. Delay wants political power: he has been a dirty politician from the beginning; has repeatedly, misused federal power, and sold influence; and has stopped bills that actually matched his stated Christian worldview, but that were politically inconvenient. He is willing, able, and eager to spout a line of hogwash to sell to the rubes, but is not willing to act on his promises. For Delay, his stated "Christian" principles take a distant second to personal and political power.



            Because there are Christians who want to do precisely the things I mentioned in the paragraphs above. And because money talks, and some of these people have a lot of money, and are willing to spend it to achieve their goals.

            (To dispense with the other possible counter-argument that you brought up, no, I quite agree that attributing the Iraq war to Christian thought is ludicrous in the extreme.)
            Politics as usual. So, again, what's the issue with what he said?
            "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by seanD View Post
              Politics as usual. So, again, what's the issue with what he said?
              On the specifics of what he said, he's wrong--we can get into the reasons why he's wrong, if you like, but to my mind that's less important. Compared to his dishonest purposes (seeking power, and willing to try to play Christians for the fool), his false statement quoted above is of minimal importance.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Outis View Post
                On the specifics of what he said, he's wrong--we can get into the reasons why he's wrong, if you like, but to my mind that's less important. Compared to his dishonest purposes (seeking power, and willing to try to play Christians for the fool), his false statement quoted above is of minimal importance.
                I agree that he's wrong, it never was specifically a Christian document that benefited just Christianity. I'm just trying to understand why we should care that he said it.
                Last edited by seanD; 02-20-2014, 07:05 PM. Reason: bad choice of words
                "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by seanD View Post
                  I agree that he's wrong, it never was specifically a Christian document that benefited just Christianity. I'm just trying to understand why we should care that he said it.
                  Should you care that Christian sentiments are being dishonestly played with in a bid for secular political power? Do you care that in the eyes of some non-Christians, the dishonesty of Delay (and others like him) is being treated as representative of "real Christianity"? Do you care that by pretending to advocate for Christian values, Delay is prostituting the Gospel for his own profit?

                  If the answer to those questions is "No," then I guess all is well in your world.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Outis View Post
                    On the Matthew Hagee show "The Difference," Tom Delay asserts that all of our problems are due to secularism. He accuses Americans of forgetting "that God created this nation [and] that He wrote the Constitution, that it's based on biblical principles."

                    While I normally take the website (Right Wing Watch) with a large grain of salt regarding their analysis of events, they do at least include the source video: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conten...e-constitution
                    (Ex-)Politicians do not good theologians make.

                    Dominionism may not be as dead as some think.
                    Meh. The religion of the left (the state is god) is much, much more influential in today's politics. Which doesn't stop the left from crying "wolf!" every chance they get.
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      Meh. The religion of the left (the state is god) is much, much more influential in today's politics.
                      Content-light (or content-free) derision ill suits you, OBP.

                      Which doesn't stop the left from crying "wolf!" every chance they get.
                      Do you believe I'm crying "Wolf"?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Outis View Post
                        Should you care that Christian sentiments are being dishonestly played with in a bid for secular political power? Do you care that in the eyes of some non-Christians, the dishonesty of Delay (and others like him) is being treated as representative of "real Christianity"? Do you care that by pretending to advocate for Christian values, Delay is prostituting the Gospel for his own profit?

                        If the answer to those questions is "No," then I guess all is well in your world.
                        I care about it in a religious sense, but not in a political sense for reasons I explained in my post. Do I care that Chrstians say things that makes us Christians look bad? Yes. Do I care that someone like Benny Hinn misrepresents Christianity for his own gain, dupes other Christians and makes the rest of us look bad? Yes. But as a non-theist, why do YOU care? That's what I don't get.
                        "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Outis View Post
                          Content-light (or content-free) derision ill suits you, OBP.
                          What derision? When the religious right and the state tangle, who most often wins? What does that tell you about where the real power lies?
                          Do you believe I'm crying "Wolf"?
                          Not so stridently as your source, but yes. Tom Delay's political career is over. Yes, there are people who advocate dominionism or theonomy. Politically, they have at best limited access to regional power.
                          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                          sigpic
                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by seanD View Post
                            I care about it in religious sense, but not politics. Do I care that someone like Benny Hinn misrepresents Christianity for his own gain, dupes other Christians and makes the rest of us look bad? Yes. But as a non-theist, why do YOU care? That's what I don't get.
                            Because even though I'm not a Christian, I have a tremendous amount of respect for those who are (and who actually walk the walk), and for Christianity. I would be opposed to perverting any religious faith for political purposes. I cannot say "equally opposed," and I am not unbiased: I live in a largely Christian culture, benefit from many of the cultural elements that have been influenced from Christianity, and tend to view Christianity favorably.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              What derision? When the religious right and the state tangle, who most often wins? What does that tell you about where the real power lies?
                              I was referring to the slur against the left, that they worship the State as a god.

                              Not so stridently as your source, but yes. Tom Delay's political career is over. Yes, there are people who advocate dominionism or theonomy. Politically, they have at best limited access to regional power.
                              Dominionism and theonomy honestly frighten me, and have for many years. For one thing, I have NEVER believed that the leaders who promote these concepts are actually motivated by religion. For another, while the leaders are willing to lie, cheat, and steal for political power, a few of their more radicalized followers are more than enthusiastic regarding the use of force to achieve their goals. While such use of force would doubtless not be successful, it would be tragic.

                              Comment

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