Welfare almost never "makes people lazy"

[Adam]

As for that other guy....
White guilt man, give yourself a break. I wrote a paper 30 years ago that White Domination would not continue because Whites have lost faith in themselves. I never could get it published even in free house organs. But it has proven true. (Paris, Brussels, Sweden, the list grows).

[jordanriver]

They certainly won't know if they don't try.

ok, lets say 300 million Americans do try.

Lets say all 300 million Americans apply their very very best, ...%110 , or 200 percent effort, they all put in 200 percent effort.

Will every one be a winner, and , realize the American Dream of wealth and servants, ....well, I guess there wouldn't be any servants though....


IOW, no losers (no servants) if each and every one applied their best?

[jordanriver]

It's probably not that few in number who make it from poverty to the top, but....
When they do it's phenomenal luck, not worthiness.

(I'm the total cynic, right?)

right!!

well, I don't think its luck if the same ones win all the time. I think some people are better at it than others, I reject that all men are created equal.

But some people blame the losers on lack of effort.

[Mountain Man]

I don't think so.
Didn't they have to share voting with the losers (except their slaves of course)

Well then, I guess it depends on how you define "winners". Just because someone owns property doesn't mean they're filthy rich and exploitative.

[Mountain Man]

IOW, no losers (no servants) if each and every one applied their best?

So that's how you define "losers"? That explains quite a lot.

[Mountain Man]

Here's a cartoon I think speaks powerfully to the issue of different circumstances leading to different outcomes blah blah blah...

Ah, yes, lets all feel guilty for our success. "You didn't build that!" If someone can draw a comic strip about it then it must be true! Let's call this the "xkcd phenomenon", where people think a biased "info graphic" magically makes an argument more valid.

Of course what the comic strip leaves out is that Richard is not guaranteed to be successful, and Paula is not guaranteed to live a life of drudgery (and I like how the one panel shows the banker expressing mean-spirited delight as he turns down Paula's lone; yeah, no unfair bias in that comic strip, is there? ). There are millions of "Richards" in this world who have gone on to failure, and millions of "Paulas" who have gone on to success. Gee, it's almost like there's more to life than the circumstances of your birth. Who knew?

[Cow Poke]

ok, lets say 300 million Americans do try.

Lets say all 300 million Americans apply their very very best, ...%110 , or 200 percent effort, they all put in 200 percent effort.

Will every one be a winner, and , realize the American Dream of wealth and servants, ....well, I guess there wouldn't be any servants though....


IOW, no losers (no servants) if each and every one applied their best?

Ummmm...... with a cheerleader like you, NOBODY would win. They might as well all just go to the local welfare office and sign up!

I think it's time somebody smack you with a fish.

[Cow Poke]

right!!

well, I don't think its luck if the same ones win all the time. I think some people are better at it than others, I reject that all men are created equal.

But some people blame the losers on lack of effort.

With some losers, it's lack of effort. I would never say that's always the case.

[Cow Poke]

So that's how you define "losers"? That explains quite a lot.

EGGcellent point.

[seer]

Let me tell you what I have experienced. I'm 62 and still live from pay check to pay check. This is due to my bad choices in the past - period. Now I have a few friends who have "made" it. In property, cash and saving they are millionaires. Not millions and millions but in the 4-6 million range. All of them either didn't finish high school or only finished high school, and few of them came from dirt poor backgrounds. All of them were in the trades. One started an electronic company in his garage (his rented garage). One worked as a mechanic, and taking side jobs, eventually had his own shop. One started as an apprentice carpenter who is now a general contractor. One as an apprentice in the HVAC trade, who eventually saved enough to start his own business, and employed 10-15 people. One a simple house painter who eventually employed a crew of 6-8. Now what was the difference between them, me and my other friends? We would generally only work eight hour days, five days a week - these guys would work 12-14 hour days, often 7 days a week. While me and my other friends were out at the taverns, drinking and chasing women, smoking reefer, and doing as little as possible to get by, these guys were busting their butts. And it payed off and it wasn't LUCK.

[Sparko]

I grew up more like Paula than Richard. My dad was in the army and didn't make much. He retired early and we lived in a small double wide trailer in the boondocks. After high school, I went to trade school, which I paid for myself by working at KFC. Then me and a friend moved to the city and we lived in a bus at a KOA campground while we learned digital electronics, which again, I paid for myself.

I started out at a job working for a manufacturing company, wiring control panels. I took some college courses on the side. Eventually I worked my way into a decent paying job. Never had a hand-out or help from rich parents, or went on welfare.

If I can do it so can anyone. Life isn't fair. Life is hard. Deal with it instead of whining.

[Mountain Man]

Two of the biggest success stories of our generation, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates, never finished college.

[seer]

I started out at a job working for a manufacturing company, wiring control panels. I took some college courses on the side. Eventually I worked my way into a decent paying job. Never had a hand-out or help from rich parents, or went on welfare.

Back in 1989 I got full custody of my son. I was a single parent making 7 dollars an hour. I was eligible for a whole slew of welfare benefits, but I refused to take any.

[Cow Poke]

I grew up more like Paula than Richard. My dad was in the army and didn't make much. He retired early and we lived in a small double wide trailer in the boondocks. After high school, I went to trade school, which I paid for myself by working at KFC. Then me and a friend moved to the city and we lived in a bus at a KOA campground while we learned digital electronics, which again, I paid for myself.

I started out at a job working for a manufacturing company, wiring control panels. I took some college courses on the side. Eventually I worked my way into a decent paying job. Never had a hand-out or help from rich parents, or went on welfare.

If I can do it so can anyone. Life isn't fair. Life is hard. Deal with it instead of whining.

Which is why we have our "Jobs for Life" program. Rather than point disadvantaged kids to the welfare line, we teach them job skills, how to do a resume, how to interview, and expose them to potential employers and/or more training opportunities.

[Cow Poke]

But there's always folks like JordanRiver who will tell kids - you ain't never goin to amount to nuthin - just go on over to that welfare office....