14-year-old Texas boy arrested for bringing homemade clock

[Sea of red]

Seriously, this level scorn is just misplaced...just because you and I with electronics training and experience can spot something quickly doesn't mean a teacher who teaches say...English...can. This is a SCHOOL! Appropriate precautions need to be taken until it can be determined with certainty that there's no danger. The problem came later with the police and school Admin continuing to overreact when it should have been clear after an expert examination it was what it was claimed to be.

By this logic, anytime somebody sees a device they are unable to identify, it should assumed to be a dangerous explosive - with those behind it's creation being labeled terrorists. Should we label everything in a science fair a terroristic weapon? How many more freedoms must we give-up, how much unnecessary paranoia must we invoke in our culture, and how much more intrusive government has to happen before it's too far?

If you guys keep giving away freedoms, we're not going to have any left.

[One Bad Pig]

Wrong question. Do you trust YOUR OWN children's lives on the ability of some teacher (one you don't even know) to spot a suicide bomber's behavior or whether some kid might somehow get access to enough gunpowder (remember we're in Texas) to make if not a deadly, a severally damaging pipe bomb?

If it's unclear, my response was not to the (rhetorical) question Teal asked, but to her second sentence.

[Teallaura]

I was responding to Mountain Man saying the school was justified BECAUSE THE KID WAS MUSLIM. No Muslim kids in the US have blown up schools but many white kids have shot them up. To assume Muslim kids have a talent for bomb making is idiotic.

Yeah, T, did you skim over MM's post (I wouldn't blame you)?

It was the most hideous thing said in this thread

Neither of you understood his concern. His point. with which I agree, was that circumstances warranted the school questioning the device. As I recall he clarified that the response was excessive once IC pointed out that the kid wasn't doing anything else that should have alerted the school.

You guys need to practice what you preach. You grossly misrepresented MM and the sad thing is that we all pretty much agree on this one.

Assume hatred and you will eventually breed hatred.

[Jaecp]

Noting that someone is an unrepentant bigot is not itself hatred

[Sam]

Neither of you understood his concern. His point. with which I agree, was that circumstances warranted the school questioning the device. As I recall he clarified that the response was excessive once IC pointed out that the kid wasn't doing anything else that should have alerted the school.

You guys need to practice what you preach. You grossly misrepresented MM and the sad thing is that we all pretty much agree on this one.

Assume hatred and you will eventually breed hatred.

Mountain Man's circumstances included "

[Teallaura]

Answer to SoR:


Doesn't justify not investigating. I agree that the school overstepped but not because they questioned an unknown device but because they showed no sense in how they subsequently handled the matter.

Innocence is not justification for judicial inaction unless proven.

[Teallaura]

If it's unclear, my response was not to the (rhetorical) question Teal asked, but to her second sentence.

I wasn't sure myself.

[whag]

Neither of you understood his concern. His point.

We understood his "point" perfectly. Muslim kids have never shot up or bombed schools in the US. Despite that, he believes we should be especially suspicious of Muslim kids.

The kid likely doesn't even understand his own religion, so to say it was right to be suspicious of his holding Islamic beliefs is offensive

[Jaecp]

Doesn't justify not investigating. I agree that the school overstepped but not because they questioned an unknown device but because they showed no sense in how they subsequently handled the matter.

Innocence is not justification for judicial inaction unless proven.

This doesn't really address the relevant issue with MMs post which was, very specifically, about religion

[Sam]

Doesn't justify not investigating. I agree that the school overstepped but not because they questioned an unknown device but because they showed no sense in how they subsequently handled the matter.

Innocence is not justification for judicial inaction unless proven.

I don't think anyone is arguing that reasonable caution isn't justified. But what people are arguing is:

(A) Simply being a Muslim student does/does not create additional justification for caution.
(B) This student would/would not have been questioned, detained, or arrested absent the racial aspect.

Mountain Man is definitively arguing that being a Muslim student creates additional justification for caution. If you're going to defend the point he's making against a supposed misinterpretation, you have to include that clause in your defense (especially because he accentuated the Muslim aspect with the word especially).

But it's a very indefensible clause so probably better we all just agree on that.

[Sea of red]

Ah, yes, when I wrote what I wrote, I just knew that some self-righteous social justice warrior would swoop in full of impotent rage and with shrill cries of "Bigotry!" as if Muslim terrorism isn't actually a thing that has happened in the US. Thank you for not disappointing.

As for my knowledge of bombs, no, I don't actually have any idea how they work, and probably neither did the teachers. I only know what I've seen on TV, which admittedly is probably not the best source of information for this sort of thing, but at the same time, when a kid brings in a device that looks suspciously like how bombs are depicted in popular entertainment, well, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to procede with due caution.

Let me put it this way: If you took Ahmed's homemade clock and left it on a busy street corner, would it or would it not cause a panic?

Well, this once caused panic.

• Edited by a Moderator •

Get the picture? People (like you) are overwhelmingly ignorant and paranoid, with next to zero knowledge of basic explosive devices. This would be fine if not for the fact that it causes unnecessary widespread panic, that promotes distrust among citizens, and prejudice towards Arabic people. I'm sorry that you're scared of your own shadow, but that doesn't give you the moral right of way to promote the harassment of American citizens that have brought no harm to any of us.

Moderated By: QuantaFille

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[Cow Poke]

I don't think anyone is arguing that reasonable caution isn't justified. But what people are arguing is:

(A) Simply being a Muslim student does/does not create additional justification for caution.

Unless, of course, there are other factors. As of now, I know of none.

(B) This student would/would not have been questioned, detained, or arrested absent the racial aspect.

Did you really mean "racial"?

[Sam]

Did you really mean "racial"?

The thread's gone between comparing Muslim/Christian and White/Other. I would agree that there's probably more of a racial/cultural element to this than a strictly religious one. I doubt, for instance, that the police officers asked what the kid's religion is.

[Sea of red]

Doesn't justify not investigating. I agree that the school overstepped but not because they questioned an unknown device but because they showed no sense in how they subsequently handled the matter.

Innocence is not justification for judicial inaction unless proven.

What was there to investigate?

I already said it but I'll say it again: if you don't know, then don't accuse. I'm sorry that every electrical board looks like an IED to you, Teal. But that's a problem with you level of knowledge of explosives, not a justification for paranoia. It would be like me calling every bag of granular bag an ANFO bomb. It's just ignorance masquerading as public safety concern.

[whag]

The thread's gone between comparing Muslim/Christian and White/Other. I would agree that there's probably more of a racial/cultural element to this than a strictly religious one. I doubt, for instance, that the police officers asked what the kid's religion is.

On that point, I don't think MM even thought through the distinction between ethnicity and religion. He conflates them both as a factor that justifies suspicion.