14-year-old Texas boy arrested for bringing homemade clock

[KingsGambit]

"Professional type standards"? I was 14 too, once. I created a "digital clock"* out of an erector set and parts I scrounged up from the local TV repair shop. Even I, as a dumb kid, was smart enough to know if you're building a clock, you don't put the display -- the main OBJECT of having a clock -- on the INSIDE where you have to open the case to see it, exposing yourself and others to the power.

On the OTHER hand, when they're doing one of these "bomb dramas" on TV - that's EXACTLY what you do... you have to OPEN the suitcase or container to see the clock.



*the "digits" were cardboard cutouts that flipped like the old mechanical "digital" clocks

Keep in mind, I'm the person who managed to sew my main project for sewing class in 7th grade (a pig) inside out.

[Adrift]

Where's your evidence for any of these assertions?

My evidence? Am I on trial? My personal evidence, I suppose, is experiential, and the photos and video I linked to. Was that not clear?

Movies and television are not real life.

Well of course not. What does that have to do with anything?

Most of the bombs that terrorists construct look more like a birds nest of wires, than anything out of some action movie.

I'm certain they do.

Like I said, I've brought rocket motors to brothers school inside of a protective case much more intimidating than that. Just because you did some really foolish and criminal things as a kid, does not mean he was guilty of the same kind of thinking - most kids don't go around doing that I'm afraid.

I'm not following your logic here. He very obviously (in my opinion) built something that looked like what one would expect a movie/tv show bomb to look like. I'm certain he thought it was cool (why else would he show it off). He's not a terrorist. I'm not calling him a terrorist. I'm not saying he was attempting to emulate a terrorist. He was just goofing around. The fact that you played around with rocket motors is great, I guess. This kid wasn't doing anything nearly as creative. He literally took off the housing of a clock, and put it in a case.

If he wanted to freak people out he wouldn't have used some kit-bashed kids electronic learning set to do it.

I don't think he was necessarily intending to freak people out. I think he was being a teen and making a sweet looking fake case bomb.

[Cow Poke]

I'd be ticked off something royal if I were 14 and someone accused me of intending to make a fake bomb when I was just showing off a basic clock project. It's like showing off a BASIC coding project only to get accused of writing a virus because both things happened to include computer code.

Sam... think about that analogy..... think really hard. How many times have we had kids in school killed by somebody's computer code? (though, God forbid, it could happen)

We HAVE, however, seen kids try to bring explosives into schools. Even in Columbine, the intent was to bring in propane tanks and blow them up with bombs. Perhaps, if the officials had discovered the propane tanks, the kids could have just explained, "Oh, this is for our cooking class - we're learning the finer points of BBQ".

BAD analogy.

[Cow Poke]

He very obviously (in my opinion) built something that looked like what one would expect a movie/tv show bomb to look like. I'm certain he thought it was cool (why else would he show it off). He's not a terrorist. I'm not calling him a terrorist. I'm not saying he was attempting to emulate a terrorist. He was just goofing around. The fact that you played around with rocket motors is great, I guess. This kid wasn't doing anything nearly as creative. He literally took off the housing of a clock, and put it in a case.

The ONLY thing I might add is the POSSIBILITY that he was either trying to get attention, and/or trying to prove a point. I'm pretty sure about the former, not so sure about the latter.

[Sam]

Sam... think about that analogy..... think really hard. How many times have we had kids in school killed by somebody's computer code? (though, God forbid, it could happen)

We HAVE, however, seen kids try to bring explosives into schools. Even in Columbine, the intent was to bring in propane tanks and blow them up with bombs. Perhaps, if the officials had discovered the propane tanks, the kids could have just explained, "Oh, this is for our cooking class - we're learning the finer points of BBQ".

BAD analogy.

It's a bad analogy if the argument offered is that the school should have done nothing at all. Fortunately, that's not the argument anyone has made.

It's a perfectly fine analogy if someone (you, Adrift) is arguing about the kid's intentions. You can't make a claim about what the kid intended to do and then back it up with an argument about how the school should respond to the device, regardless of intention.

[Cow Poke]

It's a bad analogy if the argument offered is that the school should have done nothing at all. Fortunately, that's not the argument anyone has made.

No, it's still a bad analogy.

It's a perfectly fine analogy if someone (you, Adrift) is arguing about the kid's intentions.

That he was a kid who did something dumb? That's what I've been saying, Sam.

You can't make a claim about what the kid intended to do and then back it up with an argument about how the school should respond to the device, regardless of intention.

That doesn't even make sense. I think you are SO desperate to defend the fact that you got sucked up in all this hysteria, that you can't even CONSIDER the possibility that you "dug in" too soon.

[Adrift]

No, Adrift, you're projecting your 14 year-old experience onto others. It's not appropriate to say that 14 year-olds do dumb things like build prank bombs so it's OK to say that this kid probably intended to build a prank bomb. You just can't assume that's normative and then pin it on the kid when his testimony and the evidence suggests that he was building a clock and that's it.

I'd be ticked off something royal if I were 14 and someone accused me of intending to make a fake bomb when I was just showing off a basic clock project. It's like showing off a BASIC coding project only to get accused of writing a virus because both things happened to include computer code.

You can't attribute malicious motives to a person without evidence based on "14 year olds do dumb crap like that" and say that's looking at it for what it is. It's not. It's projection and it's not appropriate.

I honestly don't have words. It boggles my mind that you're this outraged at even the mere idea that he intended to make something look like a case bomb. Very strange to me.

[Cow Poke]

Here's another thought (since I'm doing such a wonderful job of winning friends )....

IF, in fact, (and I don't know it's a fact), but IF the kid merely deconstructed a clock and put it in a case, we would call that "cheating". It's akin to somebody taking somebody's research paper, and rearranging it, and claiming they are the editor.

I think there's a pretty strong case for this being simply a "deconstructed" commercially manufactured alarm clock.

But, HEY, praise be to

The Clock!

[Sam]

No, it's still a bad analogy.

That he was a kid who did something dumb? That's what I've been saying, Sam.

That doesn't even make sense. I think you are SO desperate to defend the fact that you got sucked up in all this hysteria, that you can't even CONSIDER the possibility that you "dug in" too soon.

You're arguing, without a shred of evidence, that the kid intended to make a fake bomb in order to "get attention". You're basing that accusation entirely on the enclosure design of the project.

That's sick. To accuse a kid of malicious or even mischievous intent to "prank" the school with a fake bomb requires a good amount of evidence to be appropriate and you're making the accusation with nothing of the sort. And for no discernible reason other than to put blame onto the kid.

[Adrift]

The ONLY thing I might add is the POSSIBILITY that he was either trying to get attention, and/or trying to prove a point. I'm pretty sure about the former, not so sure about the latter.

Eh, I don't know. I read that his father was known for pulling some attention grabbing stunts, but I think this is just down to kids being kids. I remember when I was in grade school I had a teacher who was a hardcore pacifist, and she had some negative things to say about the local Hasbro manufacturer in town for creating/marketing GI Joes that she felt profited on war and violence. In a show of protest, I brought a bunch of my GI Joes in and put them around my desk. Looking back, that was such a ridiculous thing to do. All it did was tick her off, and made me look like a heel. Maybe he was going for something like that, I don't know. Again though, I think it's more likely than not that he was just showing off something that he thought looked cool. Man, if I made something that looked that cool at age 14, I'd pretend I was James Bond or something.

[Sam]

I honestly don't have words. It boggles my mind that you're this outraged at even the mere idea that he intended to make something look like a case bomb. Very strange to me.

You weren't positing it as a hypothetical. You were saying this was something that the kid did or, at the least, probably his intention. You said specifically:

... he's just a teen who thought it would be cool to make a clock look like a bomb.

That's inappropriately projecting a malicious intent without any evidence that your accusation is true. That's pretty outrageous when it's a 14 year-old kid we're talking about.

[Cow Poke]

You're arguing, without a shred of evidence, that the kid intended to make a fake bomb in order to "get attention".

Calm yourself, Sam. I'm allowing that as a possibility. I'm inclined to believe that, based on a number of things, including the fact that, when ASKED about it by authorities, he wouldn't give a reasonable answer. CONTEXT, Sam.... you gotta look at this in overall CONTEXT.

You're basing that accusation entirely on the enclosure design of the project.

No, Sam... that's only one aspect --- I have made OTHER arguments, including, but not limited to, his conduct through all of this.

Sam, you're being unusually irrational here, and appear to be getting quite angry. I think I'm going to back a way from this a bit, because you're going to blow a gasket.

That's sick. To accuse a kid of malicious or even mischievous intent to "prank" the school with a fake bomb requires a good amount of evidence to be appropriate and you're making the accusation with nothing of the sort. And for no discernible reason other than to put blame onto the kid.

Wow. I don't believe I have ever seen you this angry AND this irrational.

I'm not blaming the kid, Sam -- but I do honestly believe he did something dumb. And I ALSO believe you were not very honest or sincere when you indicated that you would send your OWN kid to school with a device like this saying, "yeah, I think it's cool".

I think I'm going to give you some space on this.

[Adrift]

That's sick.

Oh brother. Would you stop with the melodrama? Bring it down a notch, man.

[Cow Poke]

Eh, I don't know. I read that his father was known for pulling some attention grabbing stunts, but I think this is just down to kids being kids.

I agree... and I had his father's alleged activism in mind, but it's why I said "not so sure about the latter".

I remember when I was in grade school I had a teacher who was a hardcore pacifist, and she had some negative things to say about the local Hasbro manufacturer in town for creating/marketing GI Joes that she felt profited on war and violence. In a show of protest, I brought a bunch of my GI Joes in and put them around my desk. Looking back, that was such a ridiculous thing to do. All it did was tick her off, and made me look like a heel. Maybe he was going for something like that, I don't know. Again though, I think it's more likely than not that he was just showing off something that he thought looked cool. Man, if I made something that looked that cool at age 14, I'd pretend I was James Bond or something.

Yes, I'm more likely to believe that.

[Adrift]

You weren't positing it as a hypothetical. You were saying this was something that the kid did or, at the least, probably his intention. You said specifically:



That's inappropriately projecting a malicious intent without any evidence that your accusation is true. That's pretty outrageous when it's a 14 year-old kid we're talking about.

What has gotten into you? You're usually a lot more reasonable than this.