Yes, Planned Parenthood Is Breaking the Law

[Cow Poke]

Abortion is a right that gives to women a choice. I'd hardly call that victimization.

The "choice" that the woman has deprives a baby of any and ALL choices. THAT, to anybody but an idiot, is victimization to the max.

And if she later realizes she made a bad choice, the baby is still dead.

[JimL]

The "choice" that the woman has deprives a baby of any and ALL choices. THAT, to anybody but an idiot, is victimization to the max.

And if she later realizes she made a bad choice, the baby is still dead.

Your belief that a fetus is itself a human being is legally irelevant. The fact that it is a fetus already deprives it of any choices. And the victimization of the fetus was not what Tealaura was refering to idiot. Her claim was that giving a woman the choice was victimizing the woman.

[Cow Poke]

Your belief that a fetus is itself a human being is legally irelevant.

First of all, the word is "irrelevant", which describes most of your posts. And it's not merely my 'belief', it's becoming recognized more and more as science. Don't you pretend to believe in science?

The fact that it is a fetus already deprives it of any choices.

Nope - liberals call an unborn baby a fetus in an unsuccessful attempt to absolve themselves of the guilt of supporting murder.

And the victimization of the fetus was not what Tealaura was refering to idiot.

Jim, really, if you're going to call me an idiot, PLEASE use your spell checker so you don't look like an ignorant idiot yourself, OK?

Her claim was that giving a woman the choice was victimizing the woman.

Yes, and I included the baby.

Perhaps you should check the dosage on those stupidity pills - I think you're overdosing.

[Teallaura]

Earth to Jim. The law recognizes the fetus as human. That has never been in legal dispute. Even Blackmon in Roe explicitly stated that the fetus is human.

[JimL]

Earth to Jim. The law recognizes the fetus as human. That has never been in legal dispute. Even Blackmon in Roe explicitly stated that the fetus is human.

I didn't say a fetus isn't human, of course it is human, fetal tissue is human, what I said is that the "belief" that the fetus is a "human being" or "a baby" as your side likes to put it, is legally irrelevant.

[Teallaura]

And you're completely wrong. The reason that fetal death can be and has been prosecuted successfully as homicide is that the human part IS legally relevant. The basis for abortion on demand is the spurious right to privacy and Blackmons insane personhood standard.

In law, being human matters.

[JimL]

And you're completely wrong. The reason that fetal death can be and has been prosecuted successfully as homicide is that the human part IS legally relevant. The basis for abortion on demand is the spurious right to privacy and Blackmons insane personhood standard.

In law, being human matters.

You call it insane, the courts and a majority of people disagree with you about that. So whether you are right or wrong, you lose on legal grounds. Thats why the CMP and groups like them are skirting the law, trying to close down clinics and so make the law moot in any way they can.

[Cow Poke]

And you're completely wrong. The reason that fetal death can be and has been prosecuted successfully as homicide is that the human part IS legally relevant. The basis for abortion on demand is the spurious right to privacy and Blackmons insane personhood standard.

In law, being human matters.

Meanwhile, it is all basic science

Unfortunately, Jim hasn't reached the developmental stage whereby he can reason beyond regurgitating the liberal babykiller talking points.

[Cow Poke]

You call it insane, the courts and a majority of people disagree with you about that. So whether you are right or wrong, you lose on legal grounds.

That's just buttugly stupid wrong.

[Teallaura]

You call it insane, the courts and a majority of people disagree with you about that. So whether you are right or wrong, you lose on legal grounds. Thats why the CMP and groups like them are skirting the law, trying to close down clinics and so make the law moot in any way they can.

Nice dodge. The fetus being human does matter in law. I prove it and you pretend the argument was about Roe, which incidentally is an embarrassment to legal scholars on your side of the fence. Even abortion supporters acknowledge that the so called right to privacy had no basis in law before Blackmon created it and that the reasoning behind it is poor, which strange because Blackmon was an excellent jurist otherwise.

Slavery was legal, too, and the legal reasoning was just as bad as that in Roe. Bandwagon fallacy doesn't make you right so keep pretending that the law supports the position just because it is legal now. Ignore the chipping away at the sides and all the reversals. Sure, it is okay...

[Darth Ovious]

Yep because everybody knows that people are better off dead than poor.

May as well just bomb all the third world parts of the planet if we believe them.

[Darth Ovious]

Abortion is a right that gives to women a choice. I'd hardly call that victimization.

As a male it's "a right" that you don't get. You don't get to decide whether or not you are ready to be a dad so why should a woman get this "right". The mantra is usually "my body, my choice" but apparently "my wallet, my choice" isn't allowed to be said by men. Also notice that if it's totally a woman's choice to have a baby or not then it is also her responsibility to take care of it and you should be able to walk away from the child if you don't want it. Labelling it a "right" is actually a pretty disgusting thing, because it isn't a "right". What it then becomes is special treatment for a woman while everybody else suffers for it. The baby's life gets cut short and also men get sold short because they are still forced into fatherhood even if they don't want to be a dad, meaning that a man's "right" isn't even considered. There is nothing "right" about it.

[Darth Ovious]

You call it insane, the courts and a majority of people disagree with you about that. So whether you are right or wrong, you lose on legal grounds. Thats why the CMP and groups like them are skirting the law, trying to close down clinics and so make the law moot in any way they can.

Even if you were right, laws change and it doesn't mean that the law is moral.

[Christianbookworm]

So, moms can have their babies/fetuses killed before birth legally(even in the third trimester???), but after birth it would be a serious crime? Even though the baby is using the moms resources? And changing diapers can be annoying? Oh, but a born baby can be given to someone else? So can a fetus in the third trimester(and part of the second, except that mortality would be higher). Induce labor, then stick the kid in the NICU and give him/her up for adoption.

[mossrose]

As a male it's "a right" that you don't get. You don't get to decide whether or not you are ready to be a dad so why should a woman get this "right". The mantra is usually "my body, my choice" but apparently "my wallet, my choice" isn't allowed to be said by men. Also notice that if it's totally a woman's choice to have a baby or not then it is also her responsibility to take care of it and you should be able to walk away from the child if you don't want it. Labelling it a "right" is actually a pretty disgusting thing, because it isn't a "right". What it then becomes is special treatment for a woman while everybody else suffers for it. The baby's life gets cut short and also men get sold short because they are still forced into fatherhood even if they don't want to be a dad, meaning that a man's "right" isn't even considered. There is nothing "right" about it.

Fathers have no right to stop an abortion, either, if they want the child.