Derail from Planned Parenthood video thread

[Sparko]

I agree; when all you have to counter scientific study is a cursory anecdote, one has to wonder why y'all bother. But we see the same show again and again.

Source: Mountaintop Mining Consequences. M. A. Palmer, et al. Science 8 January 2010: Vol. 327 no. 5962 pp. 148-14

Clearly, current attempts to regulate MTM/VF practices are inadequate. Mining permits are being issued despite the preponderance of scientific evidence that impacts are pervasive and irreversible and that mitigation cannot compensate for losses. Considering environmental impacts of MTM/VF, in combination with evidence that the health of people living in surface-mining regions of the central Appalachians is compromised by mining activities, we conclude that MTM/VF permits should not be granted unless new methods can be subjected to rigorous peer review and shown to remedy these problems.

© Copyright Original Source

here is a satellite photo of my grandfathers land showing the area where they strip mined. Please point out to me the location of the strip mine.

land.jpg

You might call it "anectdotal" but I lived in that region and my family still does. The worse environmental impact is from building roads and such. They don't reclaim that land. but you don't hear anyone complaining about THAT, do you?

Please check out the Surface Mining Control and Reclamation Act of 1977. They are not allowed to just blow up mountains and leave them that way. Despite what google tells you or wikipedia. Since you have no first hand experience on the topic, it is better if you just shut up. And stop derailing this thread.

[Sea of red]

Sorry sweety, but you're sweating and showing your true double standards. I never made excuses for the racism of anybody, but you keep making excuses for people holding to eugenics and act as though their accomplishments should somehow excuse their actions. Second, watching your historical inaccuracies is quite amusing. Adam's was a lawyer from Massachusetts sweety and didn't own slaves at all. In fact, he was morally opposed to slavery. Third, I don't excuse anything Jefferson or Washington did and their slave ownership needs to be properly condemn for what they did. However; anybody with any sort of historical knowledge knows that not all of the signers of writers of the DoI or Constitution were slave owners and some were even morally opposed to slaver (or did you never hear of the 3/5ths compromise).

Finally, you are only focusing on a single argument that I made and totally ignoring that I have produced several reasons to end abortion (such as the fact that it is about killing human's) that you totally ignore and pretend as though this is the only argument I presented (so much for that honestly you try to claim to have, is it very honest to ignore 85% of my arguments and pretend that this one was the only one I presented?) BTW seriously, stop pretending to be an historian, stop trying to push my logic to ultimate extremes, and stop ignoring arguments you can't answer. I'm not the one making excuses for Jefferson and Washington slave ownership like you're making excuses for people's beliefs and follower ship about eugenics and this isn't my only argument. Again, when you can't refute what your opponents say, switch up the argument and hope they don't notice. Nice!

Waah! Only I get to cut out parts of peoples post. You can't do the same to me!

This comes from the same person that condenses others arguments down to "blah blah blah!" and "translation!" like it's a nervous tick or something. Sorry, you're a real wind-bag, and your posts get really repetitive to a point that it's too much for even the most patient among this forum. Want me to be charitable? Try the same thing yourself and I'll return the favor - but I won't hold my breath on that one. I've addressed your arguments time and again, and that you like to gas-light and pretend that I never replied to them just goes to show how out of it you really are.

I love your assertions and claims you can't back up, but yes I do and you'd know that if you knew a thing about me. See sweety, my parents have disabilities and I even married a man that has disabilities (with his mother, that also has disabilities). The fact that some people propose that their lives are worth less or even assume they would be better off dead is an utterly evil agenda that should be exposed for the true evil it actually is. Anybody, who supports such evil, should be held accountable for their words and actions (and yes, sterilizing thousands of people, in some cases, against their will, is a pretty despicable thing, no matter how many excuses you can dig up for it). Likewise, the fact people try to white wash this history and hide the fact that many of their hero's supported this sort of ideology is equally bad and just calls for the same mistakes of the past to be repeated. See, if people don't know that even decent and good men and women, could get caught up in such ideas, how could they earn to deal with these problems? So sorry, you're dead wrong here because I make sure that people are well aware of just how many people and how popular eugenics was and just what it lead to. Finally, it's really cute to watch you try to mindlessly defend your hero's and not condemn the actions they took part in. See sweet heart, ever read some of the articles and issues of Birth Control Review? They published articles, by Nazi scientist, in the 1930's James. I know they did because I read the articles and where they were published. Who was the editor of the magazine, throughout it's entire history? Oh yeah, Ms Sanger was. Ooops, but don't worry, I suppose you'll say, "She was against it!" Sure, everybody was against the Nazi's after the war because being associated with the Nazi's was like having a 200 lbs weight tied around your neck. The question is... did she condemn or support Nazi views and beliefs, before WWII?

You're a scumbag to say that they are my 'heroes' are that I condone their actions. Go play in the traffic, kido.

Considering that Mussolini was a devout atheist and how many historical errors you've made thus far; I'll have to see your source on this one.

I also notice you ignoring all the arguments I made and just picking on this one because you can't refute the other ones (hummm, I wonder how much longer until you switch up to a new strawman to attack, perhaps your next post will be you trying to rip yet another sentence out of context and trying to shove yet more words down my throat in your sad excuses to ignore all the mistakes you've made). Yep, when you can't refute the arguments brought forth, attack a strawman and hope nobody notices you running away with your tail between your legs. How adorable, but I need to see your source for this after the basic historical mistakes you keep making in your quest to pretend to be an historian, but keep showing your lack of even basic historical facts (John Adam's was a slaver own, that's a pretty major error on your part. Perhaps you should spend some time reading an American History book vs searching the web for pretty little pictures and making a fool of yourself).

A major error? Don't be dramatic. I already explained myself on this and why it's a mistake anybody could have made, Cannon Ball Lady.

And you failed Mr historical error after historical error. So are you done pretending to be an historian yet or do you need to keep getting more history lessons because it appears you slept though your history classes (I'm still laughing about your mistake on John Adams).

I'm still laughing about your confusion over the differences between carnivores, omnivores, and herbivores. You should consider to taking a basic high-school biology class, glass house. I know a couple of biology grads.

Than show a singe historical error that I made and what I rewrote Mr. John Adam's owned slaves.

Which one? The facts bout the fascists in Italy, Spain, and Germany, the facts about Sangers actual beliefs, the facts bout Mussolini's connection to the Catholic church? Maybe you mean that part about many of the greatest minds in the 20th century also believing in eugenic thought? It's hard for me to remember which one, Canon Ball Woman.

How adorable, you keep making all of these claims, but seem to white wash away the history you don't want to hear and try to play to the rest of it (got news for you, abortion and birth control were also illegal in the US too or have you never heard of the Comstock Laws?). Sure, they thought the reproductive rights of men and women belonged to the state, but really could care less what the 'undesirables' did or didn't do (considering they rounded them up into camps and later exterminated them, I doubt they did). Besides, birth control was a hot button issue across much of the world during that era or did you forget that little historical detail?

Point is: they were not pro-choice abortionists and elements of your theory as they did mine, which you clearly don't want to admit.

I think you've owned yourself enough in the past week.

[Cerebrum123]

I think right now people have become extremely polarized. Jaecp, Starlight and Sam are wrong on abortion, but that doesn't mean that everything they espouse is wrong, however these discussion tend to become like that. Its fairly ridiculous to see conservatives against the defunding of the Space Shuttle since that was a ridiculous pork project by the end of its life, and pouring money into COTS was precisely about putting more of this into the business of companies like Boing and SpaceX. Yet here we see conservatives defending pork for coal, and pork for space shuttles because of jobs, and apparently because Jaecp, Sam and Starlight are 'them liberals' who are wrong about everything.

Ridiculous.

Cow Poke actually gave SpaceX as an example of private sector innovation, which looks like he's endorsing them in the context of this thread. Sparko doesn't seem to be advocating "pork spending" for coal either. He just doesn't think that coal mines should be shut down before there is something to take their place. MountainMan's only point so far is that mining the materials to make solar powered batteries, and the like wasn't as "green" as some make it out to be.

I don't see any of them saying the things you are attributing to them. It's possible that I've read them wrong, but right now it looks much more likely that it's you doing that.

[Cow Poke]

Cow Poke actually gave SpaceX as an example of private sector innovation, which looks like he's endorsing them in the context of this thread. Sparko doesn't seem to be advocating "pork spending" for coal either. He just doesn't think that coal mines should be shut down before there is something to take their place. MountainMan's only point so far is that mining the materials to make solar powered batteries, and the like wasn't as "green" as some make it out to be.

I don't see any of them saying the things you are attributing to them. It's possible that I've read them wrong, but right now it looks much more likely that it's you doing that.

yup

[Cow Poke]

Its fairly ridiculous to see conservatives against the defunding of the Space Shuttle

Umm... I was championing SpaceX because it's NOT a bloated government project.

since that was a ridiculous pork project by the end of its life, and pouring money into COTS was precisely about putting more of this into the business of companies like Boing and SpaceX. Yet here we see conservatives defending pork for coal,

and pork for space shuttles because of jobs,

Not me - I think the private sector does a far better job.

and apparently because Jaecp, Sam and Starlight are 'them liberals' who are wrong about everything.

Ridiculous.

I think you're way wrong on this, Leon - to the point of ridiculous.

But I'll gladly accept your apology.

[Sam]

here is a satellite photo of my grandfathers land showing the area where they strip mined. Please point out to me the location of the strip mine.

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You might call it "anectdotal" but I lived in that region and my family still does. The worse environmental impact is from building roads and such. They don't reclaim that land. but you don't hear anyone complaining about THAT, do you?

Please check out the Surface Mining Control and Reclamation Act of 1977. They are not allowed to just blow up mountains and leave them that way. Despite what google tells you or wikipedia. Since you have no first hand experience on the topic, it is better if you just shut up. And stop derailing this thread.

Scientist: "This cancer kills 90% of all patients. It's bad."

Sparko: "My grandfather had this cancer and went into full remission! If you don't know someone who had this cancer, kindly shut up!"

Scientist: "This is why I didn't become a physician."

If you want to dispute the cited study, feel free to do so. If you want to engage in frivolous and obvious logical fallacies, go for the gusto. But only one of those options is going to continue to attract my attention.

[Cow Poke]

But only one of those options is going to continue to attract my attention.

Your track record says otherwise.

[Sparko]

Scientist: "This cancer kills 90% of all patients. It's bad."

Sparko: "My grandfather had this cancer and went into full remission! If you don't know someone who had this cancer, kindly shut up!"

Scientist: "This is why I didn't become a physician."

If you want to dispute the cited study, feel free to do so. If you want to engage in frivolous and obvious logical fallacies, go for the gusto. But only one of those options is going to continue to attract my attention.

Because studies are always right and never biased eh?

If a study said 90% of people in an area died of cancer and i produced the people in that area who said "nope he we are alive and well" you would claim the people were wrong and were really dead because the study said so

[rogue06]

Because studies are always right and never biased eh?

If a study said 90% of people in an area died of cancer and i produced the people in that area who said "nope he we are alive and well" you would claim the people were wrong and were really dead because the study said so

That sort of reminds me of the studies that find higher rates of a particular form of cancer in an area causing many millions of dollars to be spent investigating the cause. They often forget that randomness often means that instances can be clustered.

[Jedidiah]

Coal mining did have some really bad abuses in the past. These abuses were the reasons for current laws to stop it. Is there any evidence that these abuses continue today? If so we have an enforcement problem, not a coal problem.

[Leonhard]

If coal does end up as a minor player because of the market that is one thing. It is completely another for the government to shut down coal mines when there is still a demand for coal. Which is what is happening.

As near as I can tell nothing has happened except that the US government began tightening up regulations on Coal Plant emissions, and have lowered the huge amount of financial aid that the coal industry has been living off. You wanted free market, right? No Big Government?

[Leonhard]

Umm... I was championing SpaceX because it's NOT a bloated government project.

My mistake I completely misread you.

I think you're way wrong on this, Leon - to the point of ridiculous. But I'll gladly accept your apology.

I'm not sure it was ridiculous, just mistaken, but its certainly doesn't look good on me to barge into a discussion and disagree with someone who agrees with me. Sorry, Cow Poke.

[Leonhard]

In 2012 they had to lay off workers and close plants. Frankly I would hope we can find cost effective clean energy sources. But in the meantime we need fossil fuels etc, until they can be replaced.

Name me any large company, any company, that hasn't had to do economic restructuring at one point. They've had increased sales year over year since 2012, though I don't have data if there was drop in production from 2011 to 2012. All that said its a very successful company.

Solar Power is cost-effective. Each solar installation pays itself home several time. There's nothing that prevents it from becoming the main source of energy eventually, its all a matter of production and scale.

[Cow Poke]

My mistake I completely misread you.

No prob!

I'm not sure it was ridiculous,

I was pokin' fun at your "ridiculous" claim.

just mistaken, but its certainly doesn't look good on me to barge into a discussion and disagree with someone who agrees with me. Sorry, Cow Poke.

No problem - most of us have done it at one point or another.

We good!

[Sparko]

As near as I can tell nothing has happened except that the US government began tightening up regulations on Coal Plant emissions, and have lowered the huge amount of financial aid that the coal industry has been living off. You wanted free market, right? No Big Government?

The government has caused a lot of coal mines to shut down and put people out of work. You don't see that in the news much.