Lowering the Confederate Flag - and Wally World

[Tassman]

They are unable to face up to the truth about the civil war south, and to some extent some factions within the south of the present day, and so rather than face up to it and distance themselves from it, they make excuses for it.

[shunyadragon]

Plus, like, I already answered every possible version of her defense already with my arguments about gained symbolism as opposed to inherent symbolism.

At best, she is repeating a bad argument.

At worse, she's doing so because she doesn't think someone elses argument is as solid.

Either way, meh

I confronted this issue in a previous post. What is the specific difference between Southern Pride in the flag today as opposed to the Southern Pride based on the founding principles of secession of the Southern States?

I was given a vague answer that 'I could not understand . . ."

What is the specific difference between Southern Pride in the flag today as opposed to the Southern Pride based on the founding principles of secession of the Southern States?

Still waiting . . .

[shunyadragon]

I confronted this issue in a previous post. What is the specific difference between Southern Pride in the flag today as opposed to the Southern Pride based on the founding principles of secession of the Southern States?

I was given a vague answer that 'I could not understand . . ."

What is the specific difference between Southern Pride in the flag today as opposed to the Southern Pride based on the founding principles of secession of the Southern States?

Still waiting . . .

I will add, that I believe the basis of the modern pride in the Southern Confederate flags is based on the false belief that the cause of the Civil War was the issue of 'States rights.' The romantic notion of the primacy of 'State Rights' persists in this misplaced 'Southern Pride,' avoiding the real issues at the foundation of the Confederacy and the symbolism of the flag, which is slavery and racism. Many in the South believe that the secession of Southern States was justified, and the resulting war was 'Northern aggression' waged against this false notion of 'States Rights' as justification of secession. Many in the South believe that secession remains an option for Southern States.

[Rational Gaze]

The battle flags of southern states were created to symbolize the souths secession from the union over the slavery issue. Slavery was the reason for secession, the reason for the war, and legally ended with the end of the war. The main cause was slavery!

This is simply false. If you had spent any amount of time actually studying the subject then you would know this. Your inability to think is not our problem.

[Rational Gaze]

Thats correct. Slavery legally ended in 1863 with Lincolns signing of the Emancipation Proclimation, at the end of the war.

This statement in particular demonstrates that you clearly do not have even the vaguest idea about what you are talking about. Thanks to a certain loophole, one million slaves were still legally slaves after the signing of the emancipation declaration. The proclamation only applied to states and territories that had been in open rebellion with the union. So, slaves in Delaware, Kentucky, etc. were still slaves. Four border states remaining loyal to the Union were still slave states.

[Teallaura]

It was a lie!

Yet another word you don't know the meaning of...

[Teallaura]

I will add, that I believe the basis of the modern pride in the Southern Confederate flags is based on the false belief that the cause of the Civil War was the issue of 'States rights.' The romantic notion of the primacy of 'State Rights' persists in this misplaced 'Southern Pride,' avoiding the real issues at the foundation of the Confederacy and the symbolism of the flag, which is slavery and racism. Many in the South believe that the secession of Southern States was justified, and the resulting war was 'Northern aggression' waged against this false notion of 'States Rights' as justification of secession. Many in the South believe that secession remains an option for Southern States.

We just happen to be right and you're wrong as usual.

[shunyadragon]

Yet another word you don't know the meaning of...

It was a lie!!!!

[Teallaura]

Plus, like, I already answered every possible version of her defense already with my arguments about gained symbolism as opposed to inherent symbolism.

At best, she is repeating a bad argument.

At worse, she's doing so because she doesn't think someone elses argument is as solid.

Either way, meh

Your argument, as I stated, necessarily involves special pleading. If, as you have been arguing, history denotes meaning then the US flag has the same issue - and the only way out is to either pretend you don't understand the problem or to invoke special pleading. Thus far you have chosen the former which probably means you know full well how weak your own argument is. History does play a role in meaning of some symbols, flags especially - but it is not the sole factor as you've argued. Your unwillingness to try to address the issue with the US flag either means you are too dumb to understand the argument - which you aren't - or you're dodging. You can guess which one I favor.

[shunyadragon]

We just happen to be right and you're wrong as usual.

Please show where I am wrong. What is the specific difference between Southern Pride in the flag today as opposed to the Southern Pride based on the founding principles of secession of the Southern States?

[Teallaura]

It was a lie!!!!

Your posts usually are. Thanks for the clarification.

[Cow Poke]

Please show where I am wrong.

Here. On Tweb.

[Teallaura]

Please show where I am wrong.

Your fingers are moving. That's the dead give away.

Seriously, stick your fingers in your ears if your gonna argue like a three year old.

[shunyadragon]

Your argument, as I stated, necessarily involves special pleading. If, as you have been arguing, history denotes meaning then the US flag has the same issue - and the only way out is to either pretend you don't understand the problem or to invoke special pleading. Thus far you have chosen the former which probably means you know full well how weak your own argument is. History does play a role in meaning of some symbols, flags especially - but it is not the sole factor as you've argued. Your unwillingness to try to address the issue with the US flag either means you are too dumb to understand the argument - which you aren't - or you're dodging. You can guess which one I favor.

The principles of the founding of the United States are very different then the fundamental principles of the purpose of the founding of the Confederate States of America. No special pleading nor dodging at all.

[shunyadragon]

Your fingers are moving. That's the dead give away.

Seriously, stick your fingers in your ears if your gonna argue like a three year old.

Ahh! It is obvious you are dodging the issues and cannot answer!!!!