Phank on "truly terrible political policy"

[RumTumTugger]

"So Bubba-Jo Johnson Jr. the Fifth, you're saying that it should be legal to kill black people?"

"Well, I don't recognize black people as 'persons.' I know some folks do. I'm not going to argue that they're wrong. I'm going to argue that this is a sincere difference of opinion, and if freedom means anything, it means tolerating sincere differences of opinion. Freedom MEANS choices."

drat another one I want to Amen but can't

[RumTumTugger]

The problem with "person" being a legal definition is that it can be legally taken away from anyone. Hitler took it away from jews. They were no longer persons, so it was legal to gas them and torture them.

Instead of embracing such an ephemeral definition of a "person", Phank should be in fear of it. His own "personhood" is valid only at the whim of the political system he lives under.

good grief Chrs please give us an amen button

[RumTumTugger]

so you are OK with killing a human being who has done nothing to threaten you?

another post I want to amen

[RumTumTugger]

Yeah because them evil fetuses are in there killing their mothers like the chest-poppers in Alien, right? So the mom has to defend herself from them by killing them.

An unborn child has done nothing to anyone. It is not a monster, it is not a parasite, it is not a criminal, it is not an enemy combatant. It has done nothing to deserve death.

Yet you think it is OK to allow abortion to "prevent back alley abortions"???? really? To prevent mothers from harming themselves while killing their own unborn child, you think it is OK to make it legal to just kill the unborn child. The whole "back alley coat hanger abortion" thing is a myth to begin with. A lot more mothers and children die from legal abortions than ever did doing illegal ones.

That's completely stupid.

more posts that need the amen feature to use

[RumTumTugger]

do you have a problem with locking up burglars, or murderers, or drunk drivers? I assume not, so you really don't have a problem with forcing your opinions down the throats of others.

A fetus is a human being. It is not part of the mother's body. It is not a tumor or growth that she can decide to have removed. It is a HUMAN BEING.

another amen needed.

[RumTumTugger]

The trouble with this position is that society already has stepped in to outlaw murder. It is only a legal gimmick that absolves abortionists from the crime of murder. The whole personal decision argument is fatally flawed. Plus the only "reason" for the majority of abortions is inconvenience.

I want' the amen button

[Christianbookworm]

What's really crazy is that people can go to prison for causing fetal death in certain situations. So, apparently it's only okay to murder a fetus/embryo/unborn baby if the mother has allowed you to, and it's a doctor. And the kid's heart stops beating before the head exits the birth canal(unless it's a state where partial birth abortions are illegal). Why would that ever be need! C-section! If the baby is already dead(miscarriage/stillborn ), don't care how you get the body out though.

[phank]

I want' the amen button

If you look carefully, you will see that there is an anti-abortion forum, specifically reserved for those who oppose abortion and off limits for anyone who disagrees. I was politely informed that pro-choice people belong in this forum instead. Now, that's fine. What's especially fine, in my opinion, is to discover that there is no "pro-choice opinions only, no disagreement allowed" forum here, but rather that healthy exchanges of opinion are not walled off from disagreement. In practice, sad to say, I notice that there is no real debate or discussion in this forum either. Instead, legitimate choice is mislabeled "murder" and all that follows is mere piling on.

Studies have shown that aggressive and properly managed programs of free birth control have the effect of virtually eliminating unwanted pregnancies among those who accept and use the free birth control. And that those who reject it do so NOT because they wish to become pregnant, but because the pro-pregnancy forces can be intimidating. To me, it makes sense to minimize the incidence of abortion by minimizing the incidence of unwanted pregnancy - NOT by looking the other way while girls are driven to back-alley butchers by pious laws. But in all the mindless language-abuse I see here, not any mention of preventing unwanted pregnancy.

I guess the people, the circumstances, the opportunities, the pressures, etc. are simply not on the anti-abortion fanatics' radar. These holier-than-anyone-else folks apparently don't care about how or why someone might become pregnant, or what can be done to prevent it. Nor do they seem to care about children born to girls utterly unable to support or raise them, totally unqualified. So long as the child is born, their crusade has "won" and the girl can go away and suffer quietly, please. Who cares about the ounce of prevention when you have the bludgeon of "cure"?

[Zymologist]

I guess the people, the circumstances, the opportunities, the pressures, etc. are simply not on the anti-abortion fanatics' radar. These holier-than-anyone-else folks apparently don't care about how or why someone might become pregnant, or what can be done to prevent it. Nor do they seem to care about children born to girls utterly unable to support or raise them, totally unqualified. So long as the child is born, their crusade has "won" and the girl can go away and suffer quietly, please. Who cares about the ounce of prevention when you have the bludgeon of "cure"?

Given how often I have seen this type of vitriolic rhetoric coming from the pro-abortion crowd, it would very much appear to be them who want to shut down discussion on the issue.

[Sparko]

You are right Phank, there is no "pro-choice" forum. This is a Christian owned website and we are not going to allow a forum area to support murdering unborn children here. Tough cookies for you.

[Cow Poke]

Instead, legitimate choice is mislabeled "murder" and all that follows is mere piling on.

This is what disappoints me about your posting, Phank. "Legitimate" to WHOM? If we believe (as MANY Americans do) that a fetus is a HUMAN LIFE, and somebody purposely ENDS that life, how is that NOT murder?

You simply decide that a fetus is NOT a human being, therefore YOU mislabel it as "a legitimate choice" to murder it. See how that works?

[Cerebrum123]

This is what disappoints me about your posting, Phank. "Legitimate" to WHOM? If we believe (as MANY Americans do) that a fetus is a HUMAN LIFE, and somebody purposely ENDS that life, how is that NOT murder?

You simply decide that a fetus is NOT a human being, therefore YOU mislabel it as "a legitimate choice" to murder it. See how that works?

He'll just say not a "person" instead of not a "human being". It's easier to define the unborn baby into a group that's okay to kill for convenience that way.

[Christianbookworm]

Poor phank, he doesn't have any friends! Where's the prochoice people who were on Facebook? Seems he's the only one here!

[Christianbookworm]

There is a part of the forum for nonthiests. Don't know how much overlap with prochoice it might have.

[phank]

There is a part of the forum for nonthiests. Don't know how much overlap with prochoice it might have.

Might be worth a look, but I'm hoping for a discussion. I notice when I tried to raise the issue of birth control, and preventing unwanted pregnancies, I got responses like this instead:

You are right Phank, there is no "pro-choice" forum. This is a Christian owned website and we are not going to allow a forum area to support murdering unborn children here. Tough cookies for you.

And there we are. Who CARES about unwanted pregnancy, we want to discuss "murdering unborn children", and seeking a sensible policy is labeled "vitriolic rhetoric".

Meanwhile, Gallup produces some interesting breakdowns:

Americans' preferences for the "pro-choice" vs. "pro-life" terms vary greatly by political party and ideology, but also by demographic characteristics. Americans with no religious affiliation and self-described liberals are the most likely to call themselves "pro-choice," with roughly eight in 10 choosing this label. Postgraduates and high-income earners are nearly as oriented to the pro-choice position as are Democrats, followed by Easterners, suburbanites, and young adults.

On the other end of the spectrum, Protestants, low-income Americans, adults with no college education, and Southerners join Republicans and conservatives as the least "pro-choice."

So it would seem that postgraduates and high income earners are the most "pro-murder", while low-income people without college educations are the most "anti-murder". No wonder informed and educated discussion is nowhere to be found. Why think when you can use slogans?