There is a simple explanation why the ultrawealthy have been able to increase their control of the world's resources: inflation, especially since the inception of central banks' ultra-low interest rates. The economic elites can borrow massive amounts of money cheaply. Need I explain what they can do with such colossal masses of cash? Incidentally, it is not 1% of the population. It's more like 0.01% IIRC. Also, the elites can get legislation passed that benefits them to the demerit of the masses. Example, tax breaks.
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Income Inequality?
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Originally posted by Sam View PostIt doesn't start at zero because this particular chart uses 1993 as a baseline.
Therefore, 1993 is "100%" — what this chart shows is that both GDP and real median household income increased from 1993 to ~1998. GDP continued to increase but real median household income began to decline. If you track real household income back several decades, you'll find that most household incomes have experienced either no real growth (stagnation) or have actually declined (as has been shown on this thread by noting the minimum wage, in real dollars, has declined from a high of over $10/hour in the late 60s to its current $7.25/hour).
Sorry Sam, but I lived on my own for several years, but my total household income and changed greatly in the past 10 years. When I was living at home and made min wage, it looked bigger because I was living at my parents house and my income would have been totaled with their income. When I moved out, even though I got a 'raise' by being in the military; my total household income still went down, even when my personal income raised. Likewise, when I got married and my husband and I lived with his parents for a few months, the total household income jumped up. Now we are living in our own apartment, our household income has dropped, even though both of us have received raises and cost of living adjustments since that time. See the problem with your data charts yet and why counting total household income is a huge problem? It can jump up and down and all over the place, even if your personal income continues to increase. Thus, for your wealth redistribution stuff to actually work, you need to show individual incomes and their levels over the past 20 years.Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-28-2014, 09:20 PM."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Sam View PostIf you've read the whole topic and you think I'm arguing against vocational training or think that vocational training has anything substantial to do with the problem of income inequality then I'm sorry to have overestimated your ability to follow what I believe is a very simple argument. But as I've summarized it above and your response is "who are you to tell people what they can and can't do with their own money?" I imagine you do now understand the gist of the argument and we can put you in the set of people who have no real problem with very high levels of income inequality."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostAnd a bonus of not starting at zero makes the difference look that much bigger or adjusting the scale makes it look bigger or smaller. I did take these courses too Sam. I know how to make charts and how to adjust the scales to make the gap look that much bigger or smaller. I went to college and high school too.
As I said above Sam, charts can be made to look better or worse, depending on how you make the data appear. By adjusting the chart baseline, you make the gap look far larger than it really exist. Likewise, by ignoring key pieces of data (such as the fact that less than 5% of the total population makes min wage to start with or that people are getting married later on in life and thus, household income are different). Don't worry though, ignoring data is how wealth
Sorry Sam, but I lived on my own for several years, but my total household income and changed greatly in the past 10 years. When I was living at home and man min wage, it looked bigger because I was living at my parents house and my income would have been totaled with their income. When I moved out, even though I got a 'raise' by being in the military; my total household income still went down, even when my personal income raised. Likewise, when I got married and my husband and I lived with his parents for a few months, the total household income jumped up. Now we are living in our own apartment, our household income has dropped, even though both of us have received raises and cost of living adjustments since that time. See the problem with your data charts yet and why counting total household income is a huge problem? It can jump up and down and all over the place, even if your personal income continues to increase. Thus, for your wealth redistribution stuff to actually work, you need to show individual incomes and their levels over the past 20 years."I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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OK, Sam.....
You think CEO's make way too much money.
You think the government should, in some manner, take money from them to fund a minimum wage increase.
Is that correct so far? PLEASE try to give me the Reader's Digest version, OK?
ThanksThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostOK, Sam.....
You think CEO's make way too much money.
You think the government should, in some manner, take money from them to fund a minimum wage increase.
Is that correct so far? PLEASE try to give me the Reader's Digest version, OK?
Thanks
And remember that the federal minimum wage in the late Sixties was ~$10/hour, if adjusted to 2014."I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAnd that helps who (whom?), exactly?
It'd be a funny thing to argue that increasing wages helps nobody!"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Sam View PostI already cited a poll ...The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Sam View PostForgot to answer this. It clearly helps the millions of people earning minimum wage.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostNo, Sam -- it's not "settled science"."I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSo, just out of curiosity, what do you hope to gain here?"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Sam View PostYou were previously touting your success in helping people move into higher-paying jobs.
Do you have any real doubt that the higher income they received helped them in material ways?
This seems virtually axiomatic.
I'm not sure if you're just being snitty, or you really don't get it.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Sam View PostHopefully, at some point, we'll have enough people who acknowledge that income inequality is worsening, that this poses real harm to the vast majority of Americans and the economy as a whole and we will have the collective desire and willpower to avoid becoming a plutocracy. I would hope to gain, in a discussion on this topic, an empirical common ground where people could at least acknowledge what the data says and what that means. In doing so, we're clearly seeing a separation of people who agree this is a real problem that necessitates a solution and people whose ideological commitment to "Who are you to say what someone has to do with their own money" disassociates them from such civic responsibilities.
I mean, seriously... . do you actually think you're making an impact here?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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