Tom And Jerry Racist?

[Epoetker]

The depiction of Mammy in Tom and Jerry isn't all that terrible. But nevertheless, Mammy Two Shoes is clearly influenced by Mammy archetypes from minstrel shows, and as such, the cartoon does contain elements that were taken from a racist context. That's what Amazon has been warning people.

I'm just going to leave this here:

This line is held everywhere today: Euros once thought of (and continue to think of) Afros as 'lazy, superstitious, and slow' because popular culture forced them to.

We at Those Who Can See propose that the causal chain goes in the opposite direction. Over-the-top as they were, minstrel shows were at root based on whites' real perceptions of black behavior. The shows' enduring popularity is proof that 1) the cognitive and behavioral gulf between Afros and Euros was and remains immense, and 2) there is something in the 'black spirit' that Whites have envied and wanted to emulate.

They actually were nicer about it back then:

But nevertheless, Mammy Two Shoes is clearly influenced by Mammy archetypes from minstrel shows, and as such, the cartoon does contain elements that were taken from a accurate context. That's what Amazon has been warning people.

If stereotype rises to archetype, its likelihood of them being actually true goes from 99.99% to 100%.

The official line on minstrel shows today is that they were a giant conspiracy, put on by white America, to portray Afros as something other than what they were.

Two hundred years after the first blackface show, it's still plain to see that the expressive, uninhibited, gregarious nature of the Afro and his love for song and dance continue to lead other races to find him highly entertaining. The fact is, Whites love to watch Blacks ham it up—and so do other Blacks. All the pious lies in the world won't change that.

As for the qualities and behaviors ridiculed on the minstrel stage (laziness, improvidence, gambling), here again, they are biologically selected-for traits, part of that 'otherness' that has always set the Afro apart from the Euro, wherever they have co-existed.

Continued attempts to deny this otherness—itself the very foundation of 'diversity,' that sacred cow of progressives—only serve to intensify our already schizophrenic discourse on race. True celebration of diversity means accepting our real, intractable differences.

I can only imaging how crushed Robin Williams was that he couldn't do half of the Jonathan Winters characters in his career due to THAT'S RACIST by the cultural gatekeepers of the time. Suppressing half of your life experience and inspirations and being forced to play less distinctive and recognized white subcultures in an over-the-top fashion can't be good for your psychological health, especially if you're an A-list actor. Nor will your audience appreciate it as much as they normally would:

Irishmen, Germans, Jews, and many other nationality groups have been characterized on the stage. Frequently they have been presented in comedies, farces, and revues among numerous other character types; and perhaps much more frequently they have been caricatured in burlesque and in variety and vaudeville acts along with numerous other "turns."

The Irish types were based upon the immigrants who had arrived in the United States after 1847, and did not represent the earlier arrivals who had become assimilated. Not only Irish ballads (1860's and later), but also "Dutch" slap-stick comedy (in the 1850's) were features of the minstrel olio, and many black-face soloists sang in "Dutch" dialect. … The Jewish type appeared in the minstrel in black-face much later…

[Edward] Harrigan's farces followed closely the period of the great popularity of the minstrel. It is significant that his plays depicted, not the older Irish who had become assimilated, but the recent arrivals who were not, and that, when the latter had absorbed many native folkways and were no longer conspicuous by their alien ways, a revival of Harrigan's farces found audiences unresponsive.

Assimilation often means throwing away native humor in many cases. May be a reason why many resist it.

The enduring popularity of the minstrel show is one evidence of this. Acknowledgement of difference is the opposite of blank-slatism, and it is the bedrock on which any sensible public policy in a multi-ethnic society should be founded.

I have always held this to be the only true statement in this whole business.

[Christianbookworm]

My friend Kirk is a Mormon who married a white lady from South Africa. She is a real African-American. She doesn't think it is racist.

Ask someone with a high concentration of melanin then!

[Sparko]

Ask someone with a high concentration of melanin then!

why? if a black person calls something racist, does that make it true?

[Christianbookworm]

why? if a black person calls something racist, does that make it true?

If they don't think it's offensive, it ain't offensive. Different perspective is useful.

[rogue06]

In all the episodes I have ever seen, they never even showed her interacting with anyone other than Tom. In some of the episodes it seemed that she owned the house.

Yup. A lot of folks never realized that she was originally the maid and for good reason.

Source: Mammy Two Shoes

William Hanna and Joseph Barbera initially portrayed Mammy as the maid of the house, with the real owners unknown to us. Or at least her apron suggests she is a maid. Later, Hanna and Barbera seemed to suggest, through dialogue and occasional behavior, that the house was Mammy's own. In one occasion, she goes to her bedroom. This suggests she owns the house and is its sole human occupant.


Source

© Copyright Original Source

In the "Tom and Jerry Wiki" she is described as

Source:

Mammy Two Shoes (also known as Mammy, Mammy Two-Shoes or Mrs. Two Shoes in Tom and Jerry Tales) is a recurring character in MGM's Tom and Jerry cartoons. She is a heavy-set, wealthy, middle-aged african-american woman who often has to deal with the mayhem generated by the lead characters.


Source

© Copyright Original Source

Here is what "A History of Mammy-Two-Shoes" says:

Source:

In 1940, the first Tom and Jerry cartoon, "Puss Gets the Boot", was released. In this film, Tom was called "Jasper". Another character that was introuduced [sic] in this film was Tom's black owner, Mammy-Two-Shoes. This name was tooken [sic] off earlier Disney model sheets and used for the ones of the T&Js, but she was never actually referred to that name in the cartoons. The original voice of her was almost always Lillian Randolph (Birdie the maid on the Gildersleeve radio show). There were a couple where she was unavailable, but the important one in all the Tom and Jerry classics was Lillian. She did other MGM cartoons too, not just Mammy-Two-Shoes. She also did similar roles for Disney in "Three Orphan Kittens" and "Figaro and Cleo".

The face of Mammy Two Shoes was deliberately hidden. We usually saw only the lower half of her body; the black maid's chin appeared once, as an exception, in "Part Time Pal", and the film's last shot showed Mammy Two Shoes far in the distance, pursuing Tom without our being able to see her feature clearly. Also in this short, it is revealed that Mammy wears a bandana (typical of black female cartoon characters of the 30's and 40's). We can also see (for a brief second) the back of her head when she "peeks in on 'dem two cats", before getting her butt slapped with a frying pan and shovel by Tom and Butch in "A Mouse in the House". We also see her complete body (but in a shadow) as she walks down the street (revealing she is wearing a hat with a flower) in "Mouse Cleaning". However, in 1950's "Saturday Evening Puss", we can see her whole body, including her face! Fred Quimby explained about this in an article published in a 1951 edition of The Hollywood Reporter:

"A young lady, after seeing a Tom and Jerry cartoon, inquired about the maid's face, which is never shown. To quote her (and we have it in writing lest there be any doubters among you): 'It gave me the impression that the operators in the booth must be having some sort of party, since every time the maid came on the screen, the only thing I could see was her feet. My curiosity is killing me. Before I go stark, raving mad, please tell me what she looks like.'

In this instance, we had an artist draw a special head of the maid to accompany the reply. We also explained that since Tom and Jerry were the stars of the pictures, we did not wish to do anything that might distract attention from them."


Source

© Copyright Original Source

[Sparko]

If they don't think it's offensive, it ain't offensive. Different perspective is useful.

and you believe they all think alike and agree with each other?

[Christianbookworm]

and you believe they all think alike and agree with each other?

No. Do a survey of every single human on earth who has ever watched Tom and Jerry!

[fm93]

So the cartoon isn't racist after all. Make up your mind.

Go back through this thread and find just ONE instance where I said the cartoon itself is racist. You won't find it, because I never said that. I've said that the cartoon contains some racist elements, but the TV show itself isn't racist.

*cough*bullcrap*cough*

Why do you feel the need to outright reject the fact that I was genuinely a Tom and Jerry fan when I was a kid? Anyone who's ever seen the show can attest that what I mentioned is true.

More crap. You clearly wanted to imply that the mammy character in Tom and Jerry was racist.

Except that I clearly was not, which you'd realize if you actually read my post. I clearly framed the discussion first and foremost around the mammy ARCHETYPE. Why else would I have mentioned minstrel shows and the slavery days? Those keywords should make it PATENTLY obvious that I wasn't talking about the Tom and Jerry character in that paragraph. The mammy ARCHETYPE, from which the mammy character in Tom and Jerry was derived, is undeniably racist, and I explained why it's racist. The mammy CHARACTER in Tom and Jerry doesn't exhibit all the elements that made the mammy ARCHETYPE in minstrel shows racist, but she IS derived from a racist context and thus can be said to be a racist element. But, again, that doesn't make the TV show itself racist.

But as usual, when someone actually calls you out on your crap, you backpedal and claim that wasn't what you meant at all.

As usual, you accuse me of saying something that TRULY was NOT what I meant, and instead of admitting your mistake you take on a nasty tone and throw around ad hominems.

And yet you cannot tell us one example of racism in the cartoon.

Again, the cartoon itself is not racist but does contain racist elements. As for those racist elements, Mammy does qualify because although her portrayal isn't as bad as minstrel portrayals, she's clearly based off those racist performances. Even if you set that aside, the scenes in which Tom gets burnt and left with a charred visage that resembles blackface is another racist element.

[fm93]

If they used the character in a non-racist way, wouldn't that be more of a redeeming aspect for the cartoon? I mean, taking something that was once used in a bad way, and taking away the negative aspects isn't exactly a bad thing.

Well, only some of the negative aspects have been taken away. There was no reason for them to portray her as obese; that, along with her name, were clearly indications that they were referencing the mammy archetype from minstrel shows. And on that note, why would anyone base things off a clearly racist history? Even though some people now intend to use it as a symbol of regional heritage rather than rebellion, there's no good reason to fly the confederate flag in public.

Besides, Mammy isn't the only racial element in the cartoon. As Rogue pointed out earlier, there have also been several scenes in which Tom gets burned and is left with something that resembles blackface.

[Jedidiah]

Let's whine and cry because something 70 years ago was racist. Why can't we move forward to end real racism today instead this silliness.

[Zymologist]

Well, only some of the negative aspects have been taken away. There was no reason for them to portray her as obese; that, along with her name, were clearly indications that they were referencing the mammy archetype from minstrel shows. And on that note, why would anyone base things off a clearly racist history? Even though some people now intend to use it as a symbol of regional heritage rather than rebellion, there's no good reason to fly the confederate flag in public.

Besides, Mammy isn't the only racial element in the cartoon. As Rogue pointed out earlier, there have also been several scenes in which Tom gets burned and is left with something that resembles blackface.

I don't have much of an opinion on this whole subject, but the bolded part confuses me. I don't see why this is automatically a bad thing.

[fm93]

Let's whine and cry because something 70 years ago was racist.

No one in this thread is whining and crying.

can't we move forward to end real racism today instead this silliness.

Some people on this forum apparently refuse to even acknowledge the possibility of racism existing today.

I don't have much of an opinion on this whole subject, but the bolded part confuses me. I don't see why this is automatically a bad thing.

It's not a good thing. They didn't have to make her as thin as a runway model, but they also didn't need to make her obese. And since the discussion was about the mammy archetype, minstrel shows did tend to portray mammy figures as obese in order to de-sexualize black women.

[Zymologist]

It's not a good thing. They didn't have to make her as thin as a runway model, but they also didn't need to make her obese. And since the discussion was about the mammy archetype, minstrel shows did tend to portray mammy figures as obese in order to de-sexualize black women.

Ok. When I see something like that, I would just assume that she's a good cook and likes good food (as the saying goes, you shouldn't trust a skinny chef). But perhaps that's just my optimism.

[Darth Executor]

Correct. As I clarified to Sparko, I was referring to the historical Mammy from minstrel shows, not Mammy from Tom and Jerry. The Tom and Jerry creators aren't portraying her in the minstrel show manner, but nevertheless they are using her as an artifact from a racist performance, and that's why Amazon warns of racist elements.

What do you have against maids being subservient to their employer? Liberals don't seem to mind (they demand, actually) subservience to black people pounding their head into asphalt "MMA style". A cartoon seems like a drop in the bucket compared to that.

[lilpixieofterror]

good god, those are completely different. The Tom and Jerry creators used actual archetypes and depictions from minstrel shows, which were very much racist. This isn't up for debate.

Why should I not be surprised that you're jumping on this one too your majesty?