How do you attempt to rationalise with the completely irrational?

[whag]

If she has stated something with any accuracy, this just admits that humans can act like humans. That would be a big surprise, wouldn't it?

Other than the fact religion is sold as a cure to shenanigans, you have an excellent point.

[mikewhitney]

Other than the fact religion is sold as a cure to shenanigans, you have an excellent point.

If God does not kill people immediately for doing evil, but gives a chance to repent, then people can act as humans do in their carnal behavior. God gives you a chance to repent and be reconciled with Him, even if you stumble as a Christian. This is called Grace. God offers that to you through Christ.

[whag]

If God does not kill people immediately for doing evil, but gives a chance to repent, then people can act as humans do in their carnal behavior. God gives you a chance to repent and be reconciled with Him, even if you stumble as a Christian. This is called Grace. God offers that to you through Christ.

What evil did the councils do?

[Mountain Man]

Because he has no choice but to eat and work.

Regardless of whether or not someone is compelled by external factors, he's still making a choice. In the case of a child living in the home, the consequences are a result of choices his parents made.

If a girl is born with a cleft palate, how is that the ultimate consequences of her choices?

Not her choices, but what about the choices of others even stretching back several generations that led to certain genetic defects?

[mikewhitney]

What evil did the councils do?

I'm just saying that if some people abused powers, this is what humans are susceptible toward. However, the use of power for self-defense is acceptable. I have not looked into the idea of abuses of power on issues that Hypatia suspects happened.

[whag]

Regardless of whether or not someone is compelled by external factors, he's still making a choice. In the case of a child living in the home, the consequences are a result of choices his parents made.

If it's necessary to live within flood zones for survival, that cancels out the seeming folly of living near a food-abundant coast. If your point wasn't to try and lessen the seeming severity of natural evil by chalking up most instances as man purposely putting himself in harm's way, please tell me what it was. You seem to be pretending your point wasn't to deflect natural evil's severity by saying it's man's "choice" to die by a flood, which is an insult to the human spirit and God's command to be fruitful and multiply. Occupying dangerous land is kind of a requirement for that, don't ya think?

Not her choices, but what about the choices of others even stretching back several generations that led to certain genetic defects?

Mutations are as old as evolution. We see birth defects in the fossil record.

[JimL]

And that shows why you actually don't know what Christians believe.

There have been core orthodox doctrines that define Christianity for 2,000 years that Christians all adhere to and if they don't then they are heretics. And the doctrines and books were not created by imperial decree, they already existed and were codfied by such things as the Council of Nicea.

You seem to suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect when it comes to Christianity.

Christians don't know what christians believe.

[Whateverman]

If someone chooses to live near a river for whatever reason, and the river floods and destroys his home, how is that not ultimately a consequence of his choices?

Did he build the dam which protects the city downstream at the expense of his neighborhood?

You understand why Texas experienced historic flooding a few years ago. That so much property damage was caused wasn't the fault of the people who chose to live/build there...

[JimL]

The important word you are leaving out is "yet"

He could stop all evil right now, but then he would have to destroy us all. He is waiting out of mercy to allow as many as will to come to him. The evil in this world is our fault. Creation fell along with us when Adam and Eve sinned.

My guess is that in 10,000 years, if the belief itself doesn't go the way of all myths eventually go, christians will still be saying: "Jesus is coming, just not yet." And btw, are you suggesting that earthquakes and falling trees etc etc. are our fault?

[Creation fell along with us when Adam and Eve sinned.

Are you talking about the Adam and Eve of 5,000 or 6,000 years ago, or whatever the timeline is?

[JimL]

Regardless of whether or not someone is compelled by external factors, he's still making a choice. In the case of a child living in the home, the consequences are a result of choices his parents made.


Not her choices, but what about the choices of others even stretching back several generations that led to certain genetic defects?

That's like saying that if you're on the golf course and all of a sudden it starts thundering and you are killed by lighting it's you're fault, you chose to be killed, because you chose to play golf.

[whag]

That's like saying that if you're on the golf course and all of a sudden it starts thundering and you are killed by lighting it's you're fault, you chose to be killed, because you chose to play golf.

B59DA432-56F0-4FEE-BD63-FA49950B36D9.gif

[JimL]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]47157[/ATTACH]

Well, of course. that's why I said that if you're already out there on the course and all of a sudden it began to thunder and lightning. It's just a particular scenario, I could come up with many more. In Boston a lady was on her way to Logan airport, she was driving through the newly constructed TED WILLIAMS tunnel when a large portion of the concrete ceilling came loose and crushed her car killing her. According to MM, that was her fault because she chose to go to work.

[whag]

Well, of course. that's why I said that if you're already out there on the course and all of a sudden it began to thunder and lightning. It's just a particular scenario, I could come up with many more. In Boston a lady was on her way to Logan airport, she was driving through the newly constructed TED WILLIAMS tunnel when a large portion of the concrete ceilling came loose and crushed her car killing her. According to MM, that was her fault because she chose to go to work.

[Cow Poke]

That's like saying that if you're on the golf course and all of a sudden it starts thundering and you are killed by lighting it's you're fault, you chose to be killed, because you chose to play golf.

The fallacy here is that you don't "choose to be killed", Jim, you just failed to reduce your chances by choosing to stay on the golf course. Not very smart.

[whag]

The fallacy here is that you don't "choose to be killed", Jim, you just failed to reduce your chances by choosing to stay on the golf course. Not very smart.

JimL is not very bright.

Which is also an example of natural evil.

:outtie