Originally posted by Mountain Man
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostLiberally diversity: everybody looks different but thinks the same.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostNo...... given an equal opportunity setting, the representative makeup should roughly reflect the diversity in the population.
Skin color, hair color, eye color, sex, left handed, right handed etc should be represented in a similar percentage to the whole population the larger the group becomes.
But when the proportions are NOT reasonably aligned with the general population, it is prudent to ask ourselves, "why is this so?" The law of large numbers tells us that there SHOULD be reasonable alignment over time and over large populations, if everything is equitable. If the cause is due to a systemic inequity, the lack of alignment may be a symptom suggesting some kind of corrective action is needed.
It's kind of like coin tosses. If you are attempting to force an equal number of heads and tails, then you are interfering with the natural process of "coin flipping" and potentially creating an inequity. There will naturally be long runs of heads and long runs of tails over the course of many, many, flips. But if you flip the coin equitably, and over time it shows a constant tendency to come up heads more than tails, it is time to ask if the coin has been tampered with.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI let my children make up their own mind. They don't need me to tell them what they are experiencing every day - they tell me.
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Originally posted by seer View PostAnd I wonder why Asians and Indians (who are very dark skinned) do so well in this racist country. BTW Sean, are you African American?
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostIt's kind of like coin tosses. If you are attempting to force an equal number of heads and tails, then you are interfering with the natural process of "coin flipping" and potentially creating an inequity. There will naturally be long runs of heads and long runs of tails over the course of many, many, flips. But if you flip the coin equitably, and over time it shows a constant tendency to come up heads more than tails, it is time to ask if the coin has been tampered with.
For that reason I don't find trying to distinguish the two very interesting - the one ought to be tied to the other and follow from it.
Of course, a person who was racist and firmly believed in the inherent genetic inferiority/superiority of one race relative to another racist person would believe that equality of outcomes won't follow from equality of opportunity, because they think given equal opportunities one race would outperform another. Hence a racist person wouldn't find lack of equality of outcomes worrying, because it's what they would expect anyway. A racist person would therefore emphasise that what is important is equality of opportunity and not equality of outcomes. And if we look at the world to see who is exhibiting that behaviour... the answer appears to be many Republicans and many conservative posters on TWeb."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Maranatha View PostOriginally posted by Whateverman View PostOriginally posted by Maranatha View PostThe simple and complete answer is the constitution. As a conservative, I value the constitution.
So thank you.
It's a brute fact that conservatives value more than the constitution.
I had no intention of arguing with conservatives, but if you're going be hostile about this, I'll tell you where you're wrong.Last edited by Whateverman; 07-19-2020, 06:52 PM.
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostTo put it another way, equality of opportunity ought to lead to equality of outcomes, and lack of equality of outcomes indicates a probable lack of equality of opportunity.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Whateverman View PostIt's a brute fact that conservatives value more than the constitution.
They appear to mean:
1. They really strongly value really creative interpretations of tidbits of the constitution. e.g. The 2nd amendment as interpreted by the 5-4 majority in the 2008 SCOTUS case. e.g. The freedom of religion phrase in the 1st amendment as reinterpreted to mean that the US is specifically a Christian nation and non-Christian religions and lack of religious belief are to be second-class at best.
2. They reject bits of the constitution they don't like. e.g. Their dislike of the 'fake news' mainstream media overrides their interest in the 1st amendment's protection for the press, so they tend to support Trump crackdowns on it. e.g. their dislike of Black Lives Matter protesters overrides their interest in the Due Process clauses in the amendments, so they tend to be fine with secret police kidnapping protesters off the street and taking them away in unmarked vans etc.
3. The vast vast majority of the constitution they don't seem the least bit interested in. They seem to generally show no interest in becoming lawyers or in reading the constitution.
4. Liking the constitution seems to be shorthand for wanting to get back to the creatively re-imagined non-historical glories of the founding age of the US, when more conservative values were followed on the whole, back before modern liberalism had taken over America. It seems like a yearning for imagined earlier 'better times' that were actually pretty terrible times, but in the imagination it's thought that times like that could have been good if we had them again without the bad parts. It's a "well apart from the whole slavery thing, and then the whole KKK thing, those times were pretty good, right?" attitude, where people who have never seriously studied any history imagine for themselves what history could have been like.
5. By saying they like the constitution they virtue signal among themselves that they're part of the group described by #1 through #4, and particularly #4 in particular.
So their "valuing the constitution" seems to actually equate to valuing only about a dozen words in the actual constitution. It doesn't seem to be so much the document they value, as the social values and norms that were prevalent in society at the time the constitution was written that they like, in contrast to the more liberal values of society today."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by seer View PostSo if Jews, Asians or Indians do financially better than whites that is because of lack of equality of opportunity?"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostPresumably.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostTo put it another way, equality of opportunity ought to lead to equality of outcomes, and lack of equality of outcomes indicates a probable lack of equality of opportunity.
For that reason I don't find trying to distinguish the two very interesting - the one ought to be tied to the other and follow from it.
Of course, a person who was racist and firmly believed in the inherent genetic inferiority/superiority of one race relative to another racist person would believe that equality of outcomes won't follow from equality of opportunity, because they think given equal opportunities one race would outperform another. Hence a racist person wouldn't find lack of equality of outcomes worrying, because it's what they would expect anyway. A racist person would therefore emphasise that what is important is equality of opportunity and not equality of outcomes. And if we look at the world to see who is exhibiting that behaviour... the answer appears to be many Republicans and many conservative posters on TWeb.
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Again, you're assuming that those white male representatives are not being voted for by minorities, or that white male representatives are not adequately able to promote the interests of minority citizens. You persist in your racist thinking apparently without even realizing it.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostNo.
Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. It never has, AFAICT.
Right. That is why they are (on average) paid less, have lower access to healthcare, are incarcerated more and with stiffer penalties, are less healthy, and are the target of racial hostility almost daily. I see what you mean about power. They are just swimming in it.
I am flat out amazed anyone in 2020 USA would make this statement.
They ended up consolidating on an older white man. One race - one office. Now take a look at the distribution of sexes and races among Democrat members of the national and state legislatures, local governments, and even presidential appointees if the president is a Democrat. Across the boards, Democrats are more willing to embrace a "big tent" philosophy. Look at Cabinet memberships. Not only have Democratic presidents had a more diverse cabinet, they also regularly appoint Republicans to some of those positions. Obama had THREE Republicans in his cabinet. Trump not only has minimal diversity, he has not a single Democrat in his cabinet. Even Bush Jr. did better.
Sorry, MM. You can pick/chose your data all day long to hold your position. Cherry-picking is, after all, what you do. But you will be swamped by the statistics every time.
And, yes, oppression is power in the US because the "oppressed" are given special consideration and favors by society and the government in order to "level the playing field". Whether or not minorities take advantage of these exclusive privileges and opportunities or continue to see themselves as the helpless victims that liberals constantly tell them they are is another matter.
Concerning your last paragraph, you're reciting the standard liberal manta of "diversity" for its own sake. Did this supposed "diversity" lead to better outcomes? I don't think so.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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