Self-righteous vandals

[MaxVel]

Tearing down statues strikes me as one of the dumbest and more dangerous things to do. They are part of the history of a country, and should be preserved as such. Far better to get a plaque added that explains the historical background, so everyone can see and know where we have come from.

The statue of some earlier person, of dubious character or actions, can be used to explain and educate how things used to be, and why we are not like that now. When the statue is gone, the memory and truth of that past will fade, too. I quite expect dumb Americans to be denying that there ever was any slavery in America at all, 20 years from now. Like some Holocaust deniers - 'Where's the physical evidence? Where are the camps?'. People are going to claim that stories about Jefferson (or whoever) owning slaves are just bunkum, made up to try and justify special treatment for blacks.

You would think that the atheists and 'science' people here, of everyone, would be most vocal in insisting that actual physical evidence be preserved. But no...


If a statue is offensive, get over it. Many things are offensive to many people. That's life. Use that offense to educate and explain to people what the problem is.

[JimL]

80 federal charges and it's the four supposed 'boogaloos' who are really to blame for all the violence.

Inaccurate reporting about Trump (no surprise).

Yeah, there is no Antifa, it's all those dastardly 'far right' types.

Trump and his corrupt AG Barr specifically point at Antifa for the violence with no actual evidence or arrests of Antifa members, and yet they say nothing of the many White Supremecists groups who Christopher Wray, FBI head, says pose the biggest domestic terrorist threat in the country.

If Antifa is what it's claimed to be in the first and second sentences, then the Jones quote doesn't exactly disprove that Antifa was involved.

Jones doesn't have to prove Antifa was not involved, you have to prove that they were and for some reason you can't. I wonder why that is.

Low grade, credulous, 'reporting' - the WaPo again.

Low grade biased understanding. That fact is that hooligans as well as members of right wing supremacist groups have been arrested and the administration is specifically accusing Antifa. Figure it out!

[JimL]

Tearing down statues strikes me as one of the dumbest and more dangerous things to do. They are part of the history of a country, and should be preserved as such. Far better to get a plaque added that explains the historical background, so everyone can see and know where we have come from.

The statue of some earlier person, of dubious character or actions, can be used to explain and educate how things used to be, and why we are not like that now. When the statue is gone, the memory and truth of that past will fade, too. I quite expect dumb Americans to be denying that there ever was any slavery in America at all, 20 years from now. Like some Holocaust deniers - 'Where's the physical evidence? Where are the camps?'. People are going to claim that stories about Jefferson (or whoever) owning slaves are just bunkum, made up to try and justify special treatment for blacks.

You would think that the atheists and 'science' people here, of everyone, would be most vocal in insisting that actual physical evidence be preserved. But no...


If a statue is offensive, get over it. Many things are offensive to many people. That's life. Use that offense to educate and explain to people what the problem is.

History doesn't disappear with the disappearance of statues. Statues of men are about tribute to heroes. Traitors are not heroes. The toppling of them by mobs is stupid and illegal and anyone caught doing so should be arrested and charged. But, there is nothing wrong with protesting their existence and if, such as occured in S. Carolina where the Confederate flag was removed, the government decides to remove them in agreement with the protests, then there is nothing wrong with that. The legal taking removal of statues by government is nothing new.

[Sparko]

How did I do that, Sparko? I'm sure that liberals have been guilty of tearing down statues, but I don't doubt for a second that white supremecist conservatives are doing the same . That's how they operate. They say see, look they're even tearing down statues of Washington and Jefferson now. As far as buildings burning in the protests, that is more likely to have been the work of conservatives who infiltrate the protests and teach their members how to use torches to that end, again to make the protesters look bad. But who is actually responsible in any particular case is speculation on both our parts. But you should at least support the antifascists stance if not their tactics. Seems you're more supportive of the white supremecists though.

And what evidence do you have of any of this?

And why would I support either group? They are both extremist, violent thugs.

[Leonhard]

They are part of the history of a country,

Actually some of those statues are propaganda pieces, put up during the Jim Crow laws. I wouldn't call them part of the history of your country, at least in any sense that goes back any farther than the thirties.

We can discuss the act of violence and whether it is wise in and of itself, but to call it an attack on history (at least in general) is a bit much.

[Cow Poke]

Actually some of those statues are propaganda pieces, put up during the Jim Crow laws. I wouldn't call them part of the history of your country, at least in any sense that goes back any farther than the thirties.

In which case, it would be good for the municipality, region, city government, or whatever to have a discussion about it, and allow the voices of the citizens to be heard.

[Leonhard]

That wasn't addressed to you, Leon.

You been talking about "all liberals" on tweb for a while. Each time you do that, expect me to poke you.

[Cow Poke]

You been talking about "all liberals" on tweb for a while. Each time you do that, expect me to poke you.

Fair enough. But, for the record, I've already clarified that you're not them.

[Leonhard]

Fair enough. But, for the record, I've already clarified that you're not them.

I am a liberal Cow Poke. It is quite fair to call me that. I agree with liberals on 90% of all issues. And disagree with conservatives on 95% of issues.

[Cow Poke]

I am a liberal Cow Poke. It is quite fair to call me that. I agree with liberals on 90% of all issues. And disagree with conservatives on 95% of issues.

So..... I can't be your friend?

I believe I said you weren't the leftist extremist nutter --- or something like that --- like some of our Tweb liberals are.

[Leonhard]

So..... I can't be your friend?

I hope one day I can visit your, ranch is it?

I believe I said you weren't the leftist extremist nutter --- or something like that --- like some of our Tweb liberals are.

I agree with you that they're mostly just here to antagonize you. It is online debate after all.

[Cow Poke]

I hope one day I can visit your, ranch is it?

Sold the ranch about 3 years ago, but have a couple acres outside the city, and would love to have you visit.

I agree with you that they're mostly just here to antagonize you. It is online debate after all.

But, I was thinking.... have you seen ANY of our liberals joking or laughing or having a good time.
Are ALL of our liberals doom-and-gloomers?
Do ANY of them express any kind of "fun" or "joy"?

[Leonhard]

But, I was thinking.... have you seen ANY of our liberals joking or laughing or having a good time.

Cow Poke, I love you guys... I do, and I hope this summer vacation I'll have some time to spend on making a more stable solution for us all. However TheologyWeb is a completely insignificant forum in the grand scheme of things. You guys matter to me, but this place is mostly just some conservatives discussing among each other. I can't claim to understand what fun Starlight and JimL get out of being here.

If they wanted to seriously discuss philosophy or religion, there's places for that. The best I can guess is that they're here to get a rise out of you. They pick up some liberal talking points sure.

Are ALL of our liberals doom-and-gloomers? Do ANY of them express any kind of "fun" or "joy"?

I can understand why liberals in general sound like this. Though conservatives can sure sound like that as well in my opinion with their whole "The homosexual agenda will cause the fall of the nation", "This is the future liberals want", "The country as your father knew it doesn't exist anymore", and so forth.

We're the ones saying "There's some problems here" and conservatives are the ones saying "Can't you just take it easy and let things stay the way they've always been?" As for the ones here, they're here to antagonize you, because its fun for them. Kinda like Darth Ex or Epo/Demi, only on another side. They'll say whatever they can in order to get some sort of response out of you, and that's about it.

[Cow Poke]

Cow Poke, I love you guys... I do, and I hope this summer vacation I'll have some time to spend on making a more stable solution for us all. However TheologyWeb is a completely insignificant forum in the grand scheme of things. You guys matter to me, but this place is mostly just some conservatives discussing among each other. I can't claim to understand what fun Starlight and JimL get out of being here.

If they wanted to seriously discuss philosophy or religion, there's places for that. The best I can guess is that they're here to get a rise out of you. They pick up some liberal talking points sure.



I can understand why liberals in general sound like this. Though conservatives can sure sound like that as well in my opinion with their whole "The homosexual agenda will cause the fall of the nation", "This is the future liberals want", "The country as your father knew it doesn't exist anymore", and so forth.

We're the ones saying "There's some problems here" and conservatives are the ones saying "Can't you just take it easy and let things stay the way they've always been?" As for the ones here, they're here to antagonize you, because its fun for them. Kinda like Darth Ex or Epo/Demi, only on another side. They'll say whatever they can in order to get some sort of response out of you, and that's about it.

You.... you.... MODERATE, YOU!!!!!


(at least, you are moderate in your tone)

[Starlight]

I can't claim to understand what fun Starlight and JimL get out of being here.

An understanding of the current US right-wing pathology, its causes and its symptoms, from interacting with those who have it. The current US political landscape is pretty close to unprecedented, and thus interesting from a social-historical perspective, as well as important from a practical perspective of taking steps to ensure it doesn't repeat in my own country.

If they wanted to seriously discuss philosophy or religion, there's places for that.

Do you have any particularly good specific recommendations? Or is this a "I'm sure they could find somewhere better on google" throwaway line? I would be quite interested in following a high quality modern philosophy discussion forum/list.