Police guns down man after he tried to flee.

[Whateverman]

You are aware that correlation is not causation, correct?

That's correct - but since we were talking about evidence rather than causation, this appears to not be particularly relevant.

There is scant evidence of racist trends in law enforcement (recently)

Why should we be only limited to "recent" evidence? That doesn't seem like a reasonable restriction for the purposes of this conversation...

[myth]

That's correct - but since we were talking about evidence rather than causation, this appears to not be particularly relevant.


Why should we be only limited to "recent" evidence? That doesn't seem like a reasonable restriction for the purposes of this conversation...

By correlation and causation, I meant the overall discussion regarding arrest rates and sentencing, etc. Sorry, I probably should have remained more narrowly focused on the issue at hand.

But sure, since we're talking about evidence - do you have any to present? Pick a police shooting of an African American in the last 5 years and present the evidence that racism was the cause.

And I noticed you haven't answered my questions about proportional race assumptions.

Regarding recency....if you're trying to make the argument that the criminal justice system is CURRENTLY systemically racist (I'm assuming you are, feel free to correct me. And if that's the case, I'll be glad you agree that the system isn't racist), then you'll need to present current evidence. Talking about what happened in the 1970s can be fascinating from a historical perspective, but it doesn't tell you anything about a criminal justice system today which is staffed by people who weren't working (and indeed, many who weren't even born) then.

[Cow Poke]

Oh my, I'm really waiting for this one. The very first test the officer did was the Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus test. That body cam video is not good enough or angled correctly to see if he passed that test or not. The HGN is probably the most accurate of the field sobriety tests, and it's not uncommon to arrest based mostly (not entirely) on that one test if the subject has leg/mobility problems and cannot complete the other tests. I'm certified to do the HGN test, and I'm telling you the only person who was close enough to see those test results was the officer doing the test....

We have a "Citizens Police Academy" where one of the 14 week classes is on drugs and alcohol. We actually have volunteers drink to varying degrees - one will consume a beer, another 3 beers, another 6 beers, and the candidates are taught how to assess "drunkenness" with the HGN and other observations. I'm always impressed that they hit it pretty spot on!

[myth]

We have a "Citizens Police Academy" where one of the 14 week classes is on drugs and alcohol. We actually have volunteers drink to varying degrees - one will consume a beer, another 3 beers, another 6 beers, and the candidates are taught how to assess "drunkenness" with the HGN and other observations. I'm always impressed that they hit it pretty spot on!

Some of the larger studies suggest the HGN is between 77-88% accurate (as in, correct arrest decision based on minimum .08 BAC reading) by itself. Adding the other standard tests increases the arrest decision accuracy to about 95%. Granted, that assumes proper training and execution of the techniques. That's a 95% decision accuracy without using a preliminary breath testing device. And honestly, a ton of DWI arrests these days involve more than one substance, so the breath test isn't all that helpful anyways. If they're popping ladder bars and had a few beers, the breath test may show .04 BAC but they may be so hammered they can barely stand up. After completing ARIDE and getting a better understanding of non-alcohol drug impairment, I started doing blood draws more frequently. Using the Intox doesn't help prove impairment if a significant factor is a drug that doesn't show up in the breath test. But when you get that blood back and they've got 2-5 different impairing substances in their blood stream, it's easier to prove.

[Cow Poke]

Some of the larger studies suggest the HGN is between 77-88% accurate (as in, correct arrest decision based on minimum .08 BAC reading) by itself. Adding the other standard tests increases the arrest decision accuracy to about 95%. Granted, that assumes proper training and execution of the techniques. That's a 95% decision accuracy without using a preliminary breath testing device. And honestly, a ton of DWI arrests these days involve more than one substance, so the breath test isn't all that helpful anyways. If they're popping ladder bars and had a few beers, the breath test may show .04 BAC but they may be so hammered they can barely stand up. After completing ARIDE and getting a better understanding of non-alcohol drug impairment, I started doing blood draws more frequently. Using the Intox doesn't help prove impairment if a significant factor is a drug that doesn't show up in the breath test. But when you get that blood back and they've got 2-5 different impairing substances in their blood stream, it's easier to prove.

OK, mind you my service was DECADES ago, but I was, indeed, a licensed breathalyzer operator. We were trained that the breath test (BAC) was only corroborative. That the officer made the arrest based on his observation, field sobriety, driver's performance (drifting lanes, driving too slowly, overcompensating for oncoming traffic, etc), and the "0.08" was not, in and of itself, a critical factor. But, again, that was AGES ago.

[Mountain Man]

Some of the larger studies suggest the HGN is between 77-88% accurate (as in, correct arrest decision based on minimum .08 BAC reading) by itself. Adding the other standard tests increases the arrest decision accuracy to about 95%. Granted, that assumes proper training and execution of the techniques. That's a 95% decision accuracy without using a preliminary breath testing device. And honestly, a ton of DWI arrests these days involve more than one substance, so the breath test isn't all that helpful anyways. If they're popping ladder bars and had a few beers, the breath test may show .04 BAC but they may be so hammered they can barely stand up. After completing ARIDE and getting a better understanding of non-alcohol drug impairment, I started doing blood draws more frequently. Using the Intox doesn't help prove impairment if a significant factor is a drug that doesn't show up in the breath test. But when you get that blood back and they've got 2-5 different impairing substances in their blood stream, it's easier to prove.

"Ladder bars"? I'm not familiar with that term.

[Littlejoe]

"Ladder bars"? I'm not familiar with that term.

Xanax. Also known as Xanbars.

[oxmixmudd]

And once again the thread is focused on what the man shot in the back without just cause was doing wrong and not the policeman that shot him and who is now charged with felony murder along with 10 other charges.

I guess the fact he yelled 'I got him' and that the officer ran over and kicked brooks as he lay bleeding out and the fact both officers refused to render any medical aid is ok?

[MaxVel]

And once again the thread is focused on what the man shot in the back without just cause was doing wrong and not the policeman that shot him and who is now charged with felony murder along with 10 other charges.

I guess the fact he yelled 'I got him' and that the officer ran over and kicked brooks as he lay bleeding out and the fact both officers refused to render any medical aid is ok?

It's like you're immune to anything that doesn't fit your prejudices. Honestly, you make it harder to believe anything but that this was a justified shooting, since you're so biased.

Just scream and yell and point at the 'bad people' who are talking about what actually happened, don't bother to address anything they say...

AFAIK Myth is or was a LEO, and he made a number of substantial points in the last few pages, in response to your previous post, and others. But hey, no need to address any of that, just keep emotively yelling at people. No need to drag this out for pages and pages....


Can we just cut to the part where you lose it and start accusing people of being racist, speaking on behalf of demons and all that?

[rogue06]

OK, mind you my service was DECADES ago, but I was, indeed, a licensed breathalyzer operator. We were trained that the breath test (BAC) was only corroborative. That the officer made the arrest based on his observation, field sobriety, driver's performance (drifting lanes, driving too slowly, overcompensating for oncoming traffic, etc), and the "0.08" was not, in and of itself, a critical factor. But, again, that was AGES ago.

Interesting. I've been told by both police and lawyers that the field sobriety tests are a joke but serve the purpose of allowing the officer to observe the suspect for several minutes so that he couldn't later claim that he belched before taking the breath test which can result in a higher level of alcohol in the breath and therefore a false higher reading.

[Darth Ovious]

There are suggestions that police in Atlanta are walking off the job now.

https://twitter.com/SteveDeaceShow/s...76039155179525

Police department is denying a complete walkout.

https://twitter.com/Atlanta_Police/s...15926872969216

Earlier suggestions that multiple officers from each zone had walked off the job were inaccurate. The department is experiencing a higher than usual number of call outs with the incoming shift. We have enough resources to maintain operations & remain able to respond to incidents.

[rogue06]

And once again the thread is focused on what the man shot in the back without just cause was doing wrong and not the policeman that shot him and who is now charged with felony murder along with 10 other charges.

I guess the fact he yelled 'I got him' and that the officer ran over and kicked brooks as he lay bleeding out and the fact both officers refused to render any medical aid is ok?

Spinning around and aiming a weapon at an officer is now not just cause? Lord help us.

[rogue06]

There are suggestions that police in Atlanta are walking off the job now.

https://twitter.com/SteveDeaceShow/s...76039155179525



Police department is denying a complete walkout.

https://twitter.com/Atlanta_Police/s...15926872969216

I noted earlier how Atlanta has been facing a severe police shortage for awhile now and this has definitely opened the flood gates for an exodus. Still, there won't be a "complete walkout" since those who are close to retirement and their pension will likely tough it out.

[Darth Ovious]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-gave-CPR.html

Amid angry shouts and accusations from by-standers Rolfe can be clearly heard pleading, 'Mr. Brooks keep breathing. Keep breathing for me.'

The jerky bodycam footage captures him kneeling on the ground and administering CPR to the bleeding man while Brosnan looks on.

Rolfe administered CPR until the ambulance arrived and can be heard repeatedly calling Mr. Brooks' name as he tried to keep him alive.

Looks like the officer actually gave CPR to try and save the man's life and he can heard pleading for him to keep breathing and not to die.

[Mountain Man]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-gave-CPR.html



Looks like the officer actually gave CPR to try and save the man's life and he can heard pleading for him to keep breathing and not to die.

So the DA with his 11 charges is obviously talking out of his backside when he accused the officer of not administering timely aid.