NASCAR bans confederate flag from all events.

[oxmixmudd]

But by the same token, neither do you. If seer can't be sure something really happened or not, then neither can you. Yet you say he is wrong for wanting to know if something is true before offering his support against it, while you don't seem to care if it's true, as long as it looks bad, or people feel upset by it. Maybe someone gets very upset by what they think is an anonymous racist attack on them - but on further investigation it comes to light that it wasn't a racist attack, or even an attack at all. Wouldn't that be great? Everyone can relax.

Up until the last few days no one was questioning if it actually happened. You can't respond with 'if it happened' in a case like that. And it should be obvious why - you are casting aspersions on the person affected unless there is a solid reason to be unsure about the reality of the event.

Likewise, if there really was a racist attack of some kind on someone, I want it to be shown as clearly and as truthfully as possible, so that the perpetrators can be dealt with. and so that people who would like to pretend there is no racism can see that they are wrong. If we never know the truth of a problem - just how big it is, just who is involved, just how it comes about - then how can we ever think that we can solve it?

That is why the FBI investigated. After the fact we discovered it wasn't a noose after all. That's fine. But given the sorts of people that would be angered by Nascar's decision to ditch the confederate flag and that would be angered by a black nascar driver, there is no reason to doubt the report of the find.

Jussie Smollett springs to mind - that kind of race-baiting attention seeking can get people killed in the present atmosphere.

You guys have every excuse under the sun NOT to accept the possibility of an action being racist. That is what this website seems to be about in the days of Floyd Protests and Arbery killings - denying any and every event with racist connections as 'actually' racist. I frankly would be ashamed to be associated with this site, except that I'm the class pariah and despised by nearly every 'it's not really racist' denier here. So hey, that's a good badge to be able to wear in a group of people whose rhetoric on these issues is nearly indistinguishable from that of KKK members and white supremacists.

[MaxVel]

Up until the last few days no one was questioning if it actually happened. You can't respond with 'if it happened' in a case like that. And it should be obvious why - you are casting aspersions on the person affected unless there is a solid reason to be unsure about the reality of the event.



That is why the FBI investigated. After the fact we discovered it wasn't a noose after all. That's fine. But given the sorts of people that would be angered by Nascar's decision to ditch the confederate flag and that would be angered by a black nascar driver, there is no reason to doubt the report of the find.



You guys have every excuse under the sun NOT to accept the possibility of an action being racist. That is what this website seems to be about in the days of Floyd Protests and Arbery killings - denying any and every event with racist connections as 'actually' racist. I frankly would be ashamed to be associated with this site, except that I'm the class pariah and despised by nearly every 'it's not really racist' denier here. So hey, that's a good badge to be able to wear in a group of people whose rhetoric on these issues is nearly indistinguishable from that of KKK members and white supremacists.

You're the 'class pariah'. Yeah, right. No-one here takes you seriously enough for that. If people treat you rudely, it's because of your own actions, like your habit of generalised accusations of moral turpitude on the part of posters who don't immediately swallow whatever leftist talking point you're presently peddling. Instead of addressing any arguments being made you just vomit 'racist!'.

For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

'Class pariah', yeah, 'cause wondering if the McMikes met the actual legal requirements for a citizen's arrest; or if Arbery actually committed a crime by going in that house; or if what we know so far in the case shows evidence of racism on the part of the McMikes; yeah that's the exact same as putting a cross on a lawn, setting it on fire, and dressing up in white robes.

People don't like you because you're dishonest, full of self-righteousness, and a judgmental bigot. You know next to nothing about me, or almost everyone else here, but you're certain we're all 'almost exactly like KKK members or white supremacists'.

You're a sick joke, pal. Not even pathetic, just sad and shameless.

[oxmixmudd]

You're the 'class pariah'. Yeah, right. No-one here takes you seriously enough for that. If people treat you rudely, it's because of your own actions, like your habit of generalised accusations of moral turpitude on the part of posters who don't immediately swallow whatever leftist talking point you're presently peddling. Instead of addressing any arguments being made you just vomit 'racist!'.

For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

'Class pariah', yeah, 'cause wondering if the McMikes met the actual legal requirements for a citizen's arrest; or if Arbery actually committed a crime by going in that house; or if what we know so far in the case shows evidence of racism on the part of the McMikes; yeah that's the exact same as putting a cross on a lawn, setting it on fire, and dressing up in white robes.

People don't like you because you're dishonest, full of self-righteousness, and a judgmental bigot. You know next to nothing about me, or almost everyone else here, but you're certain we're all 'almost exactly like KKK members or white supremacists'.

You're a sick joke, pal. Not even pathetic, just sad and shameless.

see the bolded above

No go see if you can find anything so viscous in my replies to you?

I think 'class pariah' pretty much sums it up. Thanks for making my point.


Now - go back and read again. I said the rhetoric here on these topics (floyd, floyd protests, arbery killing) would be indistinguishable for that of a member of the KKK or neo-nazi's. The rhetoric here. The same sorts of 'softening the guilt' (justification) of the white killers and condemnations of the black men and women killed. The same focus on the unruly aspects of the protests instead of the subject of them (all to common systematic abuse of black people by policing organizations).

Like it or not, you guys are just not far at all from what they put out for public consumption, the ideas they float as part of their recruitment efforts and talking points.

See - that's just a fact Max. It has bad implications - yes. But the implication exists because of the FACT, not because I pointed it out.

[seer]

Bubba will not accept the FBI report, whining little girl! He was a bad driver from the get go, not one NASCAR Cup Series win in 4 years. Perhaps he could get rich by being a race hustler like Kaepernick...

Bubba Wallace defiant, calls rope 'straight-up noose' after FBI says no crime occurred

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/bubba-w...crime-occurred

[Sparko]

We are basically in agreement, Sparko. I have no argument with that, other than to say that Jesus wasn't white as he is most often portrayed.

It pretty much started with the various European artists trying to depict Jesus. They had no photographs back then. So naturally when they painted Jesus, they painted him as a European. It wasn't racism. Just trying to depict someone without having anything to go by. Trying to claim it is somehow racist now, after over a 1000 years is nuts. If someone wants to depict Jesus as Black, I have no problem with that either. That is their prerogative. Personally I don't have any religious depictions of Jesus or the saints in my house because I am a protestant. But just because I don't like statues of Jesus, I don't want to go into a Catholic Church and destroy their statues. And I have no problem with paintings of Jesus depicting his actions from the bible. That is just art. I don't care what color his skin or hair is.

BLM trying to make this a "thing" so they can destroy churches is evil though. It no longer is about Black Lives, it is about destroying anything that doesn't support their vision of ONLY black lives matter and anything else is racist.

[Bill the Cat]

Bubba will not accept the FBI report, whining little girl! He was a bad driver from the get go, not one NASCAR Cup Series win in 4 years. Perhaps he could get rich by being a race hustler like Kaepernick...

Bubba Wallace defiant, calls rope 'straight-up noose' after FBI says no crime occurred

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/bubba-w...crime-occurred

He doesn't know the difference between a noose knot and a bowline knot? No Boy Scouts for him?

[seer]

He doesn't know the difference between a noose knot and a bowline knot? No Boy Scouts for him?

That doesn't fit his victim status....

[Sparko]

He doesn't know the difference between a noose knot and a bowline knot? No Boy Scouts for him?

I can't tell from the photos what kind of knot it is, but even if someone tied it into a noose as a joke when they were using the garage, it still wouldn't have anything to do with Wallace. There was no way anyone could know he would be in that garage. I can see him initially thinking that, but he has said he hadn't even seen the noose himself, but only photos of it. And after he found out it wasn't really meant as an attack on him, he should have just said, "Sorry folks, It looks like I overreacted, it was not racial at all. Thank you for all of your support"

[Leonhard]

What do you think would happen to drivers and crews who did not join in the propaganda parade?

The exact same thing when you complain on this forum. Nothing.

Right, so if you don't follow the prescribed model of virtue signalling you are automatically a racist?

Seer, you call any show of support, protest, action, article or statement by any liberal about pretty much anything virtue signalling. Conservatives have with great effort, collectively, completely emptied that sentence of any real meaning beyond "Liberals are doing something and I don't wanna participate".

[seer]

The exact same thing when you complain on this forum. Nothing.

Given the cancel in this culture in this country Leonhard I doubt that very much.

Seer, you call any show of support, protest, action, article or statement by any liberal about pretty much anything virtue signalling. Conservatives have with great effort, collectively, completely emptied that sentence of any real meaning beyond "Liberals are doing something and I don't wanna participate".

Yeah, just as the left has completely emptied the word racism of any real meaning.

[Leonhard]

Given the cancel in this culture in this country Leonhard I doubt that very much.

If the majority of people that watch NASCAR are the kind of people who care about social justice, then they should of course cater to their audience. That is just wise business. However as to whether anything would have happened to them, personally, in that moment? I don't think anything would have happened.

Yeah, just as the left has completely emptied the word racism of any real meaning.

You mean the definition of racism used by sociologists across the entire world? The concept of racism doesn't make sense outside of that definition. You have to analyze racism in terms of power struggle between an ethno-national majority and the minorities.

[seer]

If the majority of people that watch NASCAR are the kind of people who care about social justice, then they should of course cater to their audience. That is just wise business. However as to whether anything would have happened to them, personally, in that moment? I don't think anything would have happened.

No, they don't like racial hoaxes. And you don't really know NASCAR fans do you?

GettyImages-487142006-e1591811664543.jpg

You mean the definition of racism used by sociologists across the entire world? The concept of racism doesn't make sense outside of that definition. You have to analyze racism in terms of power struggle between an ethno-national majority and the minorities.

I'm talking about anything being labeled as racist nowadays.

[Leonhard]

No, they don't like racial hoaxes. And you don't really know NASCAR fans do you?

In that case how could cancel culture threaten them?

I'm talking about anything being labeled as racist nowadays.

Racism is a wide systematic problem, that's set its mark in a lot of things. I will agree with you that I've seen quite a few claims that I consider a stretch. However I disagree with you on racism not being a relevant word anymore.

[seer]

In that case how could cancel culture threaten them?

Because the owners will cave, like the NFL owners did. I think they caved on this Bubba Wallace issue. They assumed it was a racial thing before they got the facts and made a big show of their wokeness.

Racism is a wide systematic problem, that's set its mark in a lot of things. I will agree with you that I've seen quite a few claims that I consider a stretch. However I disagree with you on racism not being a relevant word anymore.

First you would have to show me where it is systematic problem, but of course racists do exist.

[Leonhard]

Because the owners will cave,

The owners of the NFL? You mean the shareholders? I thought you liked capitalism. That's their right and freedom. Though again that wouldn't be cancel culture.

First you would have to show me where it is systematic problem, but of course racists do exist.

The problem of racism goes beyond individual actions. Racism encompanses all the different biases, preferential treatments, systematic differences and so forth that causes minorities to be less well off than the ethnonational majority, who are the ones who primarily benefit from the differences. So as long as such differences exist, as long as there is a difference in social mobility between them, you have racism.