NASCAR bans confederate flag from all events.

[JimL]

What do you think would happen to drivers and crews who did not join in the propaganda parade?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]45961[/ATTACH]

Then they probably would have had support from the racists in the crowd, though they would probably have been to ashamed of themselves to express their support openly.

[seer]

Then they probably would have had support from the racists in the crowd, though they would probably have been to ashamed of themselves to express their support openly.

Right, so if you don't follow the prescribed model of virtue signalling you are automatically a racist? Never mind the fact that it was all based on a lie!

[JimL]

Nah, I'm pissed at Budda Wallace - he was key in getting the Confederate flag removed from NASCAR events. And there is support and there is support - no need for a parade of cheap virtue...

What is it about the Confederate flag and Confederate heroes that you find so worthy of respect, seer?

[oxmixmudd]

What do you think would happen to drivers and crews who did not join in the propaganda parade?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]45961[/ATTACH]

Your comments here are really kinda bizarre seer. I would, wholeheartedly, lend whatever support was within my power to encourage and or even protect a colleague that had been a victim of some intimidation based on race (or any other personal characteristic). No one would have to coerce me, I would not feel under any sort of threat if I would not offer such support, and I would not understand why anyone would not want to offer such support.

Explain to us seer exactly why if a black colleague or friend were threatened in such a manner you would not offer them your support and encouragement?

[JimL]

Right, so if you don't follow the prescribed model of virtue signalling you are automatically a racist? Never mind the fact that it was all based on a lie!

Well, if you idolize the symbols of those who fought for the continuation of the practice of slavery, then people are going to assume you are either a racist yourself, or that your're just a thoughtless uncaring person who doesn't know any better.

[seer]

What is it about the Confederate flag and Confederate heroes that you find so worthy of respect, seer?

Great warriors, Lee, Jackson, Longstreet, Nathan Bedford Forrest, etc...And it is not so much the Confederate flag but about the Marxists who want to remove it. I called this over ten years ago - give into this and it won't stop. Now it is Grant, Washington, Jefferson, Columbus (we saved his statue in my town BTW) Andrew Jackson, along with Lee and other Confederates. The Betsy Ross flag is racist, along now with the American flag, and "white" Jesus. It is my humble opinion that this all is part and parcel of destroying or undermining Western ideals and values encoded in our founding documents.

[JimL]

Great warriors, Lee, Jackson, Longstreet, Nathan Bedford Forrest, etc...And it is not so much the Confederate flag but about the Marxists who want to remove it. I called this over ten years ago - give into this and it won't stop. Now it is Grant, Washington, Jefferson, Columbus (we saved his statue in my town BTW) Andrew Jackson, along with Lee and other Confederates. The Betsy Ross flag is racist, along now with the American flag, and "white" Jesus. It is my humble opinion that this all is part and parcel of destroying or undermining Western ideals and values encoded in our founding documents.

The only ones destroying and undermining western ideals is Trump, his corrupt Administration and the Republican party. Open your eyes, if you actual care.

[Sparko]

Well, how dark skinned he was is in dispute, but he certainly wasn't white. Revelations, if I remember correctly depicts Jesus as being bronze colored with wooly hair. Sorta like Obama.

The hair was described as WHITE as wool. Not "wooly" - and nobody says Jesus was white. And it was talking about his feet being like bronze GLOWING IN A FURNACE.

Rev 1:14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters.

I don't even like religious statues. I think it borders on idolotry. But I also don't think anyone has a right to tear down a religious statue because they think it shows the wrong race. I am just as much against tearing down any statues of a black Jesus. Nobody knows for sure what Jesus looked like and that isn't even important. What is important is stopping destructive morons from destroying anything they don't like. Property, statues, churches. And make no mistake, if they are tearing down religious statues they will be vandalizing churches too. Because that is where most of those statues are housed. Do you imagine they would peacefully enter a church, quietly take down the statue of Jesus on a cross, quietly remove it to some open space and then destroy it?

[seer]

Explain to us seer exactly why if a black colleague or friend were threatened in such a manner you would not offer them your support and encouragement?

First and most importantly I would make sure that the thing actually happened. Then I would personally offer what ever support I could. I certainly would not march in a politically motivated parade.

[seer]

The only ones destroying and undermining western ideals is Trump, his corrupt Administration and the Republican party. Open your eyes, if you actual care.

Right, Trump and his followers are not rioting and looting and tearing down statues of Jefferson and Washington. Get a clue Jim...

[JimL]

The hair was described as WHITE as wool. Not "wooly" - and nobody says Jesus was white. And it was talking about his feet being like bronze GLOWING IN A FURNACE.

Rev 1:14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters.

I don't even like religious statues. I think it borders on idolotry. But I also don't think anyone has a right to tear down a religious statue because they think it shows the wrong race. I am just as much against tearing down any statues of a black Jesus. Nobody knows for sure what Jesus looked like and that isn't even important. What is important is stopping destructive morons from destroying anything they don't like. Property, statues, churches. And make no mistake, if they are tearing down religious statues they will be vandalizing churches too. Because that is where most of those statues are housed. Do you imagine they would peacefully enter a church, quietly take down the statue of Jesus on a cross, quietly remove it to some open space and then destroy it?

We are basically in agreement, Sparko. I have no argument with that, other than to say that Jesus wasn't white as he is most often portrayed.

[oxmixmudd]

First and most importantly I would make sure that the thing actually happened. Then I would personally offer what ever support I could. I certainly would not march in a politically motivated parade.

You don't have the capacity to 'make sure it really happened' - and God help you if you start down that path.

"Did someone really leave a noose? You'll need to prove that's really what happened before I react to that. Sorry".

"Were you really raped, I need to know for absolute sure before I offer encouragement, heaven for bid I offered you support and we found out it didn't really happen. I'd be so embarassed"

It's really kinda sick seer. Sorry, but that is just what it is.

[JimL]

Right, Trump and his followers are not rioting and looting and tearing down statues of Jefferson and Washington. Get a clue Jim...

You have no idea who it is that is looting and rioting, nor who it is that is tearing down particular statues. Just like hooligans and the right wing extremist groups infiltrate otherwise peaceful protests, they most likely infiltrate the idea of tearing down statues as well. What better way to make the left look bad than to tear down statues of Washinton and Jefferson? You, nor do I, have any idea who is responsible for that.

[MaxVel]

You don't have the capacity to 'make sure it really happened' - and God help you if you start down that path.

"Did someone really leave a noose? You'll need to prove that's really what happened before I react to that. Sorry".

"Were you really raped, I need to know for absolute sure before I offer encouragement, heaven for bid I offered you support and we found out it didn't really happen. I'd be so embarassed"

It's really kinda sick seer. Sorry, but that is just what it is.

But by the same token, neither do you. If seer can't be sure something really happened or not, then neither can you. Yet you say he is wrong for wanting to know if something is true before offering his support against it, while you don't seem to care if it's true, as long as it looks bad, or people feel upset by it. Maybe someone gets very upset by what they think is an anonymous racist attack on them - but on further investigation it comes to light that it wasn't a racist attack, or even an attack at all. Wouldn't that be great? Everyone can relax.

Likewise, if there really was a racist attack of some kind on someone, I want it to be shown as clearly and as truthfully as possible, so that the perpetrators can be dealt with. and so that people who would like to pretend there is no racism can see that they are wrong. If we never know the truth of a problem - just how big it is, just who is involved, just how it comes about - then how can we ever think that we can solve it?

Jussie Smollett springs to mind - that kind of race-baiting attention seeking can get people killed in the present atmosphere.

[seer]

You don't have the capacity to 'make sure it really happened' - and God help you if you start down that path.

What are you talking about? The FBI was investigating - just wait for the report, it only took two days. And given that there has been a number of false "noose" reports in recent years (as well as real ones) prudence is the way to go.

"Were you really raped, I need to know for absolute sure before I offer encouragement, heaven for bid I offered you support and we found out it didn't really happen. I'd be so embarassed"

You are correct, I should have jumped on the Jussie Smollett bandwagon! My bad...