Originally posted by Mountain Man
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Ahmaud Arbery; racist killing and attempted cover up.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostOn what basis do you make that assertion? They were wrestling for control of the gun, so it is possible and plausible that all three shots were accidental. From what I remember of the video, the fatal shot was fired as Arbery had his hand on the barrel of the shotgun and was yanking it towards himself while repeatedly punching the younger McMichael in the head who was attempting to dodge the blows, and after the shot was fired and Arbery stopped his attack, the younger McMichael immediately lowered the weapon and backed away.
What can be seen is an arrogant shooter strutting away from Arbery as/after he falls to the ground. Nothing even close to 'my God what have I done' but rather, 'There, I got him'Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-14-2020, 02:20 PM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by JimLamebrain View PostHighly unlikely that Arbery had his hand on the barrel of the shotgun unless the shotgun was pointed at him in the first place. Arbery was then justified to have tried to wrest the gun from McMichaels. I think it's what might be called the unarmed victim standing his ground. If McMichaels ends up pulling the trigger, accidentally or not, that's on him, not on the victim.
Last edited by Mountain Man; 06-14-2020, 02:42 PM.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Postthe copies of the video i've seen are not clear enough to disern that level of detail.
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostWhat can be seen is an arrogant shooter strutting away from Arbery as/after he falls to the ground. Nothing even close to 'my God what have I done' but rather, 'There, I got him'Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by JimL View PostHighly unlikely that Arbery had his hand on the barrel of the shotgun unless the shotgun was pointed at him in the first place. [...]Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostWatch the video instead of speculating. Arbery rounds the truck, and we can't see the initial confrontation[...]
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Originally posted by Chuckles View PostSome may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostOh like Botham Shem, I won't this forum forget this. I'll be keeping an eye on the trial.
(Well, except me, cause I had originally accepted that Arbery lived 10 miles away, but, having done my own checking, found that to be dubious at best)
CARRY ON!!!!The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostMy point is that the participants in this thread have arrived at that point where the same things are being said over and over and over and over..... and I don't believe anybody has changed their mind even a teeny bit.
(Well, except me, cause I had originally accepted that Arbery lived 10 miles away, but, having done my own checking, found that to be dubious at best)
CARRY ON!!!!
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Originally posted by MaxVel View PostOr just say "I wasn't made aware of that prowler until the next day." or "It was three a.m. I was asleep in bed."
One difference is that Arbery went in during the day, was observed going in and coming out by a neighbour. IIRC the others were captured at night on camera (not an alarm).
See my post here on Georgia law. I think the McMichaels were asked to keep an eye on the property as there had been prowlers there. Arbery was seen entering and leaving by a witness, who phoned the police. Not sure how the McMichaels knew - if it was the witness who told them, and he maintained visual contact with Arbery that seems pretty solid.
Arbery committed a crime - criminal trespass by going in to the property (misdemeanor). If he went in with intent to steal, or intent to come back later to steal, that is a felony. That we know Arbery didn't steal anything is knowledge no-one at the time had. I think they would (and probably could) successfully argue that they wanted to talk to Arbery and ask what he was doing in the house - this would be how you would establish intent (and hence a felony).
Anyway, I think under Georgia law, trespass would enough for someone to make a citizen's arrest if "...the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge." That might be the case here if an eyewitness immediately informed the McMichaels. Was Bryan (in the following vehicle) the person who saw Arbery and made the call??
"If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion." IOW they don't have to see him doing it, or have immediate knowledge of it. I can see their attorney arguing that they suspected Arbery of burglary in the first degree (note for this offense it is NOT required that anything actually be stolen, the offender's intent is sufficient) and wanted to talk to him / get him to wait so the police could talk to him. Or even that they had grounds to suspect him of intent to steal, i.e. burglary in the first degree, and thus were legally making a citizen's arrest (holding someone and truing them over ASAP to the police)
See above.
I agree that they made some poor choices. Some of those are obvious to us, because we know things they could not have known. I don't think we can judge them for that. I think that they can argue quite strongly that they were in compliance with the law.
What they did wrong (but not illegally, IMHO) was stopping and getting out of the truck.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostThere is probably some truth to that. I have not changed my mind, rather I have seen my suspicions supported time and time and time again. Somethings become more and more obvious the longer people keep saying the same things, focus on the same things and the like.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostOn what basis do you make that assertion? They were wrestling for control of the gun, so it is possible and plausible that all three shots were accidental. From what I remember of the video, the fatal shot was fired as Arbery had his hand on the barrel of the shotgun and was yanking it towards himself while repeatedly punching the younger McMichael in the head who was attempting to dodge the blows, and after the shot was fired and Arbery stopped his attack, the younger McMichael immediately lowered the weapon and backed away.
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Originally posted by JimLamebrain View PostYou don't accidently keep your finger on the trigger and fire it 3 times if you are just fighting for control of the shot gun.
Anyway, the reason McMichaels lowering his weapon and retreating is significant is because that's the action I'd expect from someone with intent to stop and not intent to kill. If it was his intent to kill then I would have expected him to aim and fire one final shot to finish the job and not back away with his weapon lowered while the other guy was still moving.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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