Ahmaud Arbery; racist killing and attempted cover up.

[Leonhard]

It does, but supposedly, they were part of a neighborhood watch group, and intended to hold him until police arrived, but it went south in a hurry.

What I'm interested in is whether they pursued him. I get confronting someone, and I get neighborhood watch groups. But I don't like vigilantism.

As I just posted, it will be interesting to see the actual facts under cross examination, to get the actual picture of what happened.

Me too, there's nothing to do but wait.

[Cow Poke]

What I'm interested in is whether they pursued him.

"Looking for somebody" is not the same as "pursuing" somebody. It appears they were looking for whoever it was that had been in the house, and when he came out, they attempted to stop him. It's amazing to me how different people watching the very same video can see such wildly different things, and use language to "color" their perception.

I consider "pursuit" to be "chasing after" with an intent to intervene.

I get confronting someone, and I get neighborhood watch groups. But I don't like vigilantism.

Our neighborhood watch groups where I live are STRICTLY "observe and report". In a case like this, it would have been totally appropriate, in my opinion, for them to watch and FOLLOW him, even as he went back to his vehicle, get a license plate number, direction of travel, etc...

I am NOT in favor of citizens injecting themselves in the arrest process except in extreme situations.

Me too, there's nothing to do but wait.

I think it's reasonable to settle on the things on which we agree, and to establish whether or not a "fact" holds up to scrutiny -- like the whole "hands up" thing that turned out to be an absolute farce.

[Mountain Man]

I think what's happening a lot in this case is....

There are a number of "facts" that came out initially, that have subsequently been disputed or adjusted.
We don't really have a timeline of who said what when.
Everybody is compiling their own "set of facts" to support their narrative.

As we've seen in the past, MANY times, when the "facts" are presented under oath, and subject to cross examination, they go "poof".

It would really be interesting to see the facts set out as they currently exist, not as they were originally portrayed.

Unfortunately, race relations in the country are such that there will literally be riots if these guys aren't convicted of murder regardless of the facts.

[Cow Poke]

Unfortunately, race relations in the country are such that there will literally be riots if these guys aren't convicted of murder regardless of the facts.

Yes, the EMOTIONAL tone is set up front by the media, the expectations are pretty much cast in stone, and any deviation from the narrative will result in crisis.

[Leonhard]

"Looking for somebody" is not the same as "pursuing" somebody.

That's pretty much what happened in the testimony of Gregory McMichael. He gave a testimony describing seeing Ahmaud running along. He went inside told his son to come along, grabbed his magnum while his son grabbed his shotgun. And then they began pursuing him.

Here's the police report featuring the interview with Gregory McMichael https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthel...mized/full.pdf

Source: Glynn County Police Department Public Release Incident Report for G20-11303

McMichael stated he then ran inside his house and called to Travis and said "Travis the guy is running down the street lets go"... McMichael stated he and Travis got in the truck and drove down Satilla Drive toward Burford Drive. McMichael stated when they arrived at the intersection of Satilla Drive and Holmes Drive, they saw the unidentified male running down Burford drive. McMichael then stated Travis drive down Burford and attempted to cut off the male. McMichael stated the unidentified male turned around and began running back the direction from which he came and "Roddy" attempted to block him which was unsuccessful. Michael stated he then jumped into the bed of the truck and he and Travis continued to Holmes in an attempt to intercept him... McMichael stated they saw the unidentified male and shouted "stop stop, we want to talk to you". Michael stated they pulled up beside the male and shouted stop again at which time Travis exited the truck with the shotgun

© Copyright Original Source

How do you paint this as "looking for somebody" and not pursuit?

I consider "pursuit" to be "chasing after" with an intent to intervene.

I'm just going by the report here. It looks exactly like that was what they wanted to do.

I think it's reasonable to settle on the things on which we agree

Just the facts maam.

[Leonhard]

Yes, the EMOTIONAL tone is set up front by the media, the expectations are pretty much cast in stone, and any deviation from the narrative will result in crisis.

It's hard to excuse this sitting around for 76 days. It's really sad that it took a viral video event for the case to start moving along. Do you find it excusable? Because I sure don't.

[Cow Poke]

That's pretty much what happened in the testimony of Gregory McMichael. He gave a testimony describing seeing Ahmaud running along. He went inside told his son to come along, grabbed his magnum while his son grabbed his shotgun. And then they began pursuing him.

Here's the police report featuring the interview with Gregory McMichael https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthel...mized/full.pdf

Source: Glynn County Police Department Public Release Incident Report for G20-11303

McMichael stated he then ran inside his house and called to Travis and said "Travis the guy is running down the street lets go"... McMichael stated he and Travis got in the truck and drove down Satilla Drive toward Burford Drive. McMichael stated when they arrived at the intersection of Satilla Drive and Holmes Drive, they saw the unidentified male running down Burford drive. McMichael then stated Travis drive down Burford and attempted to cut off the male. McMichael stated the unidentified male turned around and began running back the direction from which he came and "Roddy" attempted to block him which was unsuccessful. Michael stated he then jumped into the bed of the truck and he and Travis continued to Holmes in an attempt to intercept him... McMichael stated they saw the unidentified male and shouted "stop stop, we want to talk to you". Michael stated they pulled up beside the male and shouted stop again at which time Travis exited the truck with the shotgun

© Copyright Original Source

How do you paint this as "looking for somebody" and not pursuit?

That would be troubling. And I'm not trying to "paint" it as anything - just looking for actual facts, instead of emotional "selective facts". A police incident report is a whole lot better than the "he said / she said" I had been seeing.

I'm just going by the report here. It looks exactly like that was what they wanted to do.

I have no reason to dispute the report.

Just the facts maam.

EGGzackly.

[Cow Poke]

It's hard to excuse this sitting around for 76 days.

That, to me, can only be explained -- NOT EXCUSED -- by the fact that this guy was a former police officer, and they were pretty much looking the other way on this.

It's really sad that it took a viral video event for the case to start moving along.

I had indicated early on that this was one of the more troubling aspects of this whole thing.

Do you find it excusable? Because I sure don't.

Don't now. Didn't then.

[Leonhard]

That would be troubling. And I'm not trying to "paint" it as anything - just looking for actual facts, instead of emotional "selective facts". A police incident report is a whole lot better than the "he said / she said" I had been seeing.

It took me a while to find it too And I agree with you on emotional facts, however, I do think people have a right to express outrage over the handling of the case. I don't think it is at all unfair for the black community to protest this.

[Cow Poke]

It took me a while to find it too And I agree with you on emotional facts, however, I do think people have a right to express outrage over the handling of the case.

Yeah, I just hate it when people post things as "facts" that are yet in dispute, or think they know more about the law than everybody else... There are a couple of posters here who, when I read their account, it's almost automatic that I see it as wrong, because of their history of being wrong on so many things involving the law.

On why it took so long to get this in the open....
A) it's inexcusable
2) it sure makes it hard to NOT suspect fowl play
C) I think I mean foul, not fowl

[Cow Poke]

Just for fodder, here is a press release from the Georgia Bureau of Investigation....

Ahmaud Arbery Murder Investigation

https://gbi.georgia.gov/submit-tips-online

[oxmixmudd]

It took me a while to find it too And I agree with you on emotional facts, however, I do think people have a right to express outrage over the handling of the case. I don't think it is at all unfair for the black community to protest this.

Especially since a big deal was made about the trespassing as some sort of justification for these men trying to detain him when, in fact, there are several different groups of people and children captured on that same surveillance video. Yet the one chased down by two armed men was the one who was a young black male.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/18/us/ah...ine/index.html

Source: above

Three new videos show a man and woman entering the property, children entering the property and an unidentified male entering the property on separate occasions.

© Copyright Original Source

As I've been trying to say - it is not at all unusual for people to be curious about a property under construction and until it is walled in and the doors locked it is not unusual for people to take a look around and see what is being built.

The idea Arbery is somehow a suspicious character because he was captured on video in the place is absurd, unless you want to extend that to all the others, including the children, that did the same thing.

[Mountain Man]

Especially since a big deal was made about the trespassing as some sort of justification for these men trying to detain him when, in fact, there are several different groups of people and children captured on that same surveillance video. Yet the one chased down by two armed men was the one who was a young black male.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/18/us/ah...ine/index.html

Source: above

Three new videos show a man and woman entering the property, children entering the property and an unidentified male entering the property on separate occasions.

© Copyright Original Source

As I've been trying to say - it is not at all unusual for people to be curious about a property under construction and until it is walled in and the doors locked it is not unusual for people to take a look around and see what is being built.

The idea Arbery is somehow a suspicious character because he was captured on video in the place is absurd, unless you want to extend that to all the others, including the children, that did the same thing.

See, that's called speculation. You're jumping to the conclusion that they only went after Arbery because he was black, but who were the other people on the video? Were they known by the neighbors? Were they friends or family? Did somebody in the neighborhood talk to them and ask them not to trespass? Do we even know if they were seen entering and leaving the construction site? What other factors are there that we're unaware of? We don't know, but you have your narrative, and you're sticking with it.

[JimL]

See, that's called speculation. You're jumping to the conclusion that they only went after Arbery because he was black, but who were the other people on the video? Were they known by the neighbors? Were they friends or family? Did somebody in the neighborhood talk to them and ask them not to trespass? Do we even know if they were seen entering and leaving the construction site? What other factors are there that we're unaware of? We don't know, but you have your narrative, and you're sticking with it.

You certainly do, MM, you certainly do!

[oxmixmudd]

See, that's called speculation. You're jumping to the conclusion that they only went after Arbery because he was black, but who were the other people on the video? Were they known by the neighbors? Were they friends or family? Did somebody in the neighborhood talk to them and ask them not to trespass? Do we even know if they were seen entering and leaving the construction site? What other factors are there that we're unaware of? We don't know, but you have your narrative, and you're sticking with it.

"The only one they went after is a black male" is a fact. It is not my opinion, and it is not soeculation.