Will COVID 19 return?

[Cow Poke]

Because he's measured....

Yeah, yeah, yeah....

I guess that's why your president doesn't bother admitting he got something wrong even when it is glaringly obvious he didn't and just doubles down instead...

A) He's no more my president than he is yours
2) Trump can be a real pompous ass

[carpedm9587]

Yeah, yeah, yeah....

A) He's no more my president than he is yours

Actually - I'm going to bet you're going to be voting for him again in November. I will not. And I'm pretty sure you once expressed that the "not my president" sentiment is not one you have or respect, which suggests you accept Mr. Trump as "your president." I do not - and for the first time in my life. He holds the office. He does not represent me or anything I stand for, so he is not my president and never will be. Reagan was my president. Both Bush's were my president. Even Nixon was my president. This is not a partisan issue. It's a moral/ethical one.

2) Trump can be a real pompous ass

[Cow Poke]

Actually - I'm going to bet you're going to be voting for him again in November.

IF I do, and you're still an American citizen, he will still be your president, regardless how much you want to protest.

I will not. And I'm pretty sure you once expressed that the "not my president" sentiment is not one you have or respect,

Because it's just downright goofy.

which suggests you accept Mr. Trump as "your president."

It is a known fact that Trump is POTUS, and nothing your or I say can change that.

I do not - and for the first time in my life. He holds the office. He does not represent me or anything I stand for, so he is not my president and never will be. Reagan was my president. Both Bush's were my president. Even Nixon was my president. This is not a partisan issue. It's a moral/ethical one.

Claiming that Trump is not your president is like peeing your pants in a dark suit - it gives you a warm feeling, but doesn't show.

[Leonhard]

Mr. Trump as "your president." I do not

By that do you mean you deny that legally he is the president? Or just as the president he doesn't represent your values?

At any rate its a silly expression. He might be a bad or mediocre president, but that doesn't change the fact that he is the President of the United States.

[carpedm9587]

IF I do, and you're still an American citizen, he will still be your president, regardless how much you want to protest.

As I've said before, CP, if he is elected, he won't be my president then anymore than he is now. He holds the political office. He does not and will not represent me. And if he is re-elected, as soon as I can establish citizenship elsewhere, I will be doing so to make the even that much clearer.

Because it's just downright goofy.

Your opinion is noted...

It is a known fact that Trump is POTUS, and nothing your or I say can change that.

Of course he holds the office. He holds the office of president of the United States. But he is not MY president and never will be. I do not recognize his office - nor will I at any time grant him any honorific associated with that office. I have never preceded "Trump" with "president" and I never will. And I will never accept him as representing me in any way and continually make it clear to anyone with whom the discussion arises.

I am under no illusion that my position changes the office he holds. All it does is take a stand as to what I will and will not accept in a president.

Claiming that Trump is not your president is like peeing your pants in a dark suit - it gives you a warm feeling, but doesn't show.

I don't expect it to make a difference to anyone else. That was never my objective. It doesn't even particularly give me a "warm" feeling. Frankly, it's rather sad that we have put such a man in so important an office. But "not my president" is nothing more than a statement of defiance. And hopefully - it will be a cry echoed by many on 11/3 and we will turn that sentiment into a reality. Never underestimate the power of a decent rallying cry!

Not my president!

Dump Trump!

This time, let's actually DRAIN the swamp!

And so many more....

[carpedm9587]

By that do you mean you deny that legally he is the president? Or just as the president he doesn't represent your values?

I am not questioning that he is legally president, Leon. He legally won by virtue of the electoral college and a number of factors that combined in just the right way to put him over the top. He most certainly legally holds the office. But if David Duke had legally won the electoral college, I would likewise be saying, "not my president." He is THE president. But he is not MY president.

And I repeat, I have never ever used that expression for any president in my lifetime. I have always accepted that presidents change and you don't always get the policy leader you want. But this time we went far beyond "policy" and we put a racist, misogynistic, self-aggrandizing, bully in the highest office in the land. Not MY president - never will be.

At any rate its a silly expression. He might be a bad or mediocre president, but that doesn't change the fact that he is the President of the United States.

Not so much. There is a distinction between "not THE president" and "not MY president." I accepted Bush as both THE president and MY president, even though we differed on so many policy issues. I did so because accepting the legally elected president is what we do in a democracy. Sometimes you get the leader you want - and sometimes you don't. But Mr. Trump is a whole other animal. In fact, I wanted to begin the process of changing my citizenship right after the first election. My wife pressed on me to stick it out for four years and accept it as an aberration, with the hopes that the nation would return to its senses in 2020. So I said yes. And so I accept Mr. Trump as THE president, but I do not accept him as MY president.

If you do not see the distinction, then let me draw on your Christian roots and ask you to apply your imagination. Chose the person in history that, for you, most personifies evil. Now imagine that person was just legally elected to be president of the United States. Ask yourself how comfortable you would feel saying "President X" or accepting this person as "your president."

Perhaps then you will touch on the sentiment "not my president" is intended to convey.

[Cow Poke]

As I've said before, CP, if he is elected, he won't be my president then anymore than he is now. He holds the political office. He does not and will not represent me. And if he is re-elected, as soon as I can establish citizenship elsewhere, I will be doing so to make the even that much clearer.



Your opinion is noted...



Of course he holds the office. He holds the office of president of the United States. But he is not MY president and never will be. I do not recognize his office - nor will I at any time grant him any honorific associated with that office. I have never preceded "Trump" with "president" and I never will. And I will never accept him as representing me in any way and continually make it clear to anyone with whom the discussion arises.

I am under no illusion that my position changes the office he holds. All it does is take a stand as to what I will and will not accept in a president.



I don't expect it to make a difference to anyone else. That was never my objective. It doesn't even particularly give me a "warm" feeling. Frankly, it's rather sad that we have put such a man in so important an office. But "not my president" is nothing more than a statement of defiance. And hopefully - it will be a cry echoed by many on 11/3 and we will turn that sentiment into a reality. Never underestimate the power of a decent rallying cry!

Not my president!

Dump Trump!

This time, let's actually DRAIN the swamp!

And so many more....

Childish rant noted.

[carpedm9587]

Childish rant noted.

Rant I grant you.

Childish? Again, your POV is acknowledged.

The fact is Trump holds the office of president. The fact that he holds that office is a sad reflection on the state of our country. I have been embarrassed to be an American for the last 3.5 years - a feeling I have not felt for a long time now. I don't like it. I won't fly the U.S. flag. I won't stand or recite the U.S. pledge or sing along with the Star Spangled Banner. At the heart of it, I no longer want to be an American citizen. At my wife's request, I've elected to stay through the 2020 election, and that election will be the final decision point for me. If there are signs that we are stepping away from everything Trump represents, I'll stick around. If not, I'll go.

Either way, I will never give the human offal occupying the White House any degree of respect. The office he holds deserves respect - but the man does not. For me, this is a moral/ethical issue. As I have said before, policies will always take second place to morality/ethics for me. I can accept a man whose policies I disagree with. I cannot accept a man who regularly rejects and transgresses fundamental ethical principles - and takes pride in so doing.

[Cow Poke]

Rant I grant you.

HOWEVER.....

Childish? Again, your POV is acknowledged.

To an extent, yes, because it's just a goofy little temper tantrum. Repeating it over and over doesn't make it more valid, so I'll grant that this is your position, and I think it's nutty, and you think I'm wrong.

Doesn't affect the fact that I still think you're mostly a decent person.

[carpedm9587]

HOWEVER.....

To an extent, yes, because it's just a goofy little temper tantrum. Repeating it over and over doesn't make it more valid, so I'll grant that this is your position, and I think it's nutty, and you think I'm wrong.

And I have to admit that I find labeling someone's ethical/moral response to a situation they consider important, perhaps even critical, a "goofy little temper tantrum" is pretty condescending. Consider what your response would be if I simply dismissed your stance on abortion as a "goofy little temper tantrum." My guess is you would find that pretty offensive. That is basically my response to your off-hand dismissal. Don't get me wrong - my life will continue without much impact by your dismissal. I just find it offensive.

Mr. Trump is taking this country to a dark place. He didn't start the process - but he's leveraging and encouraging it using the power of the office he holds. To me, that is a pretty serious matter.

Doesn't affect the fact that I still think you're mostly a decent person.

Likewise

[Cow Poke]

And I have to admit that I find labeling someone's ethical/moral response to a situation they consider important, perhaps even critical, a "goofy little temper tantrum" is pretty condescending.

I apologize, but it's what I think. Would you rather I lie?

Consider what your response would be if I simply dismissed your stance on abortion as a "goofy little temper tantrum."

I'd ask if you'd been associating with Tassman. (where is he, anyway?)

My guess is you would find that pretty offensive.

Not even in the slightest, as I come across that all the time.

That is basically my response to your off-hand dismissal. Don't get me wrong - my life will continue without much impact by your dismissal. I just find it offensive.

Wait til you've actually been SHOT at.... THAT's offensive.

Mr. Trump is taking this country to a dark place. He didn't start the process - but he's leveraging and encouraging it using the power of the office he holds. To me, that is a pretty serious matter.

Meanwhile, he's still the duly elected....

Likewise

But, only because I actually AM!

[carpedm9587]

I apologize, but it's what I think. Would you rather I lie?

I'd ask if you'd been associating with Tassman. (where is he, anyway?)

Not even in the slightest, as I come across that all the time.

Wait til you've actually been SHOT at.... THAT's offensive.

Meanwhile, he's still the duly elected....

But, only because I actually AM!

I'll leave you with one observation: not everything we are thinking needs to be said aloud - and not everything we are thinking needs to be said rudely or with an intent to demean. I cannot think of anything that "goofy little temper tantrum" is intended to do other than to demean.

Last word to you.

[Cow Poke]

I'll leave you with one observation: not everything we think needs to be said - and not everything we think needs to be said rudely or with an intent to demean.

Wow.... there is NO "intent to demean", and I've found that friends can be honest and open with each other without one of them going into a pout.

My apologies for assuming we were that kind of friends.

I cannot think of anything that "goofy little temper tantrum" is intended to do other than to demean.

Last word to you.

Grow thicker skin. (don't know if there's an app for that)

[carpedm9587]

Wow.... there is NO "intent to demean", and I've found that friends can be honest and open with each other without one of them going into a pout.

My apologies for assuming we were that kind of friends.

Grow thicker skin. (don't know if there's an app for that)

ETA: I have to admit, I am surprised by your response. I would expect this kind of response from MM, Pix, Sean, Rogue, and Sparko. It never crossed my mind to expect it from you. I realize even expressing that violates my "last word" comment, so I'll drop off now.

[Cow Poke]

ETA: I have to admit, I am surprised by your response. I would expect this kind of response from MM, Pix, Sean, Rogue, and Sparko. It never crossed my mind to expect it from you. I realize even expressing that violates my "last word" comment, so I'll drop off now.

No, don't drop off -- I've told the other mods that I don't seem to fit here - I'm too brusque. I say what I think, and expect others to "get it". It's on me. My background has been military/police/oilfield - and I'm used to being around really tough cookies.

In my Church situation, I realize I have to be much more reserved, and I manage somehow to do that pretty effectively. Sometimes I tell myself "well, just pretend you're in the Church environment when you're on Tweb", but the Church environment doesn't any of the anti-Christian bigots we have here.

It's me.



(and you've never kept your word before on "last word", so why start now?*)




*that was a JOKING comment, albeit there's a lot of truth to it.