Half of all cases happening in care homes

[carpedm9587]

OK, so this thread certainly jumped the rails quickly. At the risk of bringing it back to the theme of the OP, has anyone asked if the Covid-19 deaths were only of pre-existing residents of these places, or were Covid-19 patients sent there from local hospitals who could not deal with the load?

The difference between the two scenarios, I think, gets to the point I suspect Demi was trying to make with his OP.

[shunyadragon]

OK, so this thread certainly jumped the rails quickly. At the risk of bringing it back to the theme of the OP, has anyone asked if the Covid-19 deaths were only of pre-existing residents of these places, or were Covid-19 patients sent there from local hospitals who could not deal with the load?

The difference between the two scenarios, I think, gets to the point I suspect Demi was trying to make with his OP.

Actually all this is trying to increase the fog index of making nursing home the scapegoat problem in one form or another. The fact is world wide the elderly over 65 and the vulnerable population are by far the majority of fatalities and severe cases of COVAG-19. The occupants of extended care facilities like nursing homes are the most elderly, and vulnerable of the population.

[Cow Poke]

If they are truly intensive care nursing homes...is that a surprise? They tend to be populated by the most sick. I'd love to see the mortality statistics for patients entering a hospital ICU.

Having just had some experience with hospital ICU in the past week, I'd say it's likely they fare much better because the "lock down" is incredible. My best friend's wife couldn't even get in to the ER to see her husband who had briefly died of a heart attack, and was resuscitated. Also, somebody in an ICU can actually be somebody in otherwise good health, but was in an auto accident or something, without the complications of an impaired immune system or whatever.

But, yeah, it would be interesting to see the numbers.

[Cow Poke]

OK, so this thread certainly jumped the rails quickly. At the risk of bringing it back to the theme of the OP, has anyone asked if the Covid-19 deaths were only of pre-existing residents of these places, or were Covid-19 patients sent there from local hospitals who could not deal with the load?

I don't think that the nursing home protocols would allow known Covid-19 patients to be moved there - it's quite a rigorous process to get somebody admitted to nursing homes, and the risk factor of infectious disease (even generally) is quite well known.

[simplicio]

Yes, a patient who tests positive and needs long term care can be placed in a nursing home or a skilled nursing facility. They are designed to handle long term care patients.

The one with the criminal probe of the infection spread apparently takes rehab patients, so it has a higher turnover, the disease has spread to a neighboring sub-acute facility. https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...-home/2273576/

The facility had a worker fail to properly clean a blood pressure cuff in 2017 and one failed to follow the hand washing rules in 2018. And lawyers appear to be standing by for this potential windfall of a pandemic.

[JonathanL]

Perhaps you could summarize their opinion of nursing home workers?

My point is that

both the patients who depend on the workers and the workers themselves have dignity

The main reason those homes are horrible is that they take in the class of people who are most difficult to care for; the "good" homes typically sort out those patients.

Those workers take on responsibility few would want, and is every bit as important as any other job in health care. They are serving those at the end of life.

The euthanasia movement is built upon views quite similar to these. We reject euthanasia but accept the premises?

How did Sparko and cowpoke describe those people? Those descriptions were certainly not charitable. And definitely not compatible with a pro life view, if one assigns human nature to the Creator.

the quality of the employees seems to indicate a "lets hire the cheapest labor we can..."

If you were any good, you'd be working elsewhere

Do you think that Sparko and Cowpoke believe those words they posted?

Of course they believe the words they posted, why wouldn't they? What they don't believe is the unjustified, and quite frankly slanderous, inferences that you're drawing from those words.

Again, you're a such a miserable person.

[simplicio]

Of course they believe the words they posted, why wouldn't they? What they don't believe is the unjustified, and quite frankly slanderous, inferences that you're drawing from those words.

Again, you're a such a miserable person.

Slanderous? I take you do not know any of those low competence employees. The slander was on Sparko and CP. "If they were any good they would be working elsewhere" That is slanderous, totally uncalled for. And mean spirited. But apparently it is totally appropriate for a Christian on Tweb.

There is a pro life angle to this. The "horribleness" of such places is due to several factors. But significant factor is that the end of life leaves the elderly incontinent, smelly, and inconvenient burdens. Nursing homes nurses serve the elderly at their last days on earth, people who bear the divine image. The do-gooder impulse only extends to the feel good things at the homes, not to the things which could really impact those workers who are disparaged so easily.

Those workers are putting their lives on the line today, working with minimal protections, while providing care. And those workers are facing criminal investigation today, and the very strong likelihood of lawsuits tomorrow.

Why don't those so called pro life churches encourage their members to choose a career in long term care? Life, that precious divine gift, extends from womb to tomb. There is dignity in changing adult diapers and wiping butts.

[Cow Poke]

Slanderous?

He is Risen.

[Cow Poke]

Why don't those so called pro life churches encourage their members to choose a career in long term care?

Are you in long term care? Have you committed your life to those people?

My daughter is. She's a hospice nurse. She has been told that if one of her patients is determined to have COVID, she is to schedule that patient as the last appointment of her day - do NOT come back to the office - go directly home and shower, and maintain safe distances from her own family. She actually had one COVID patient, but he died before she was assigned to visit him.

Nobody had to "encourage" her to do this. It's a calling. She comes from a long line of people who have been called to serve - military veterans, police officers, nurses, teachers. If you'd ever be interested in hearing about her calling, it's quite an amazing story. She even left this calling for a short time to become a Labor & Delivery nurse, but one day she asked me if I'd be disappointed if she went back to Hospice. I was stunned - WHY would I be disappointed? She went on to say - "Labor and Delivery was a really great job, but Hospice is real Ministry".

[carpedm9587]

Actually all this is trying to increase the fog index of making nursing home the scapegoat problem in one form or another. The fact is world wide the elderly over 65 and the vulnerable population are by far the majority of fatalities and severe cases of COVAG-19. The occupants of extended care facilities like nursing homes are the most elderly, and vulnerable of the population.

I actually agree. The data suggests that the mortality rate ranges from 0.2% for those below 40 to over 14% for those above 80. Add in complicating issues and you increase the risk - and those who are older tend to have more complicating issues. Now toss in the close quarters of nursing homes, hospices, and elderly care centers and you have a perfect storm of characteristics for significant deaths.

I'm not sure why half the deaths happening in these places is either a surprise or a fact that should in any way change our minds about what is happening.

[carpedm9587]

I don't think that the nursing home protocols would allow known Covid-19 patients to be moved there - it's quite a rigorous process to get somebody admitted to nursing homes, and the risk factor of infectious disease (even generally) is quite well known.

Good point - one I had not considered.

[simplicio]

Are you in long term care? Have you committed your life to those people?

My daughter is. She's a hospice nurse. She has been told that if one of her patients is determined to have COVID, she is to schedule that patient as the last appointment of her day - do NOT come back to the office - go directly home and shower, and maintain safe distances from her own family. She actually had one COVID patient, but he died before she was assigned to visit him.

Nobody had to "encourage" her to do this. It's a calling. She comes from a long line of people who have been called to serve - military veterans, police officers, nurses, teachers. If you'd ever be interested in hearing about her calling, it's quite an amazing story. She even left this calling for a short time to become a Labor & Delivery nurse, but one day she asked me if I'd be disappointed if she went back to Hospice. I was stunned - WHY would I be disappointed? She went on to say - "Labor and Delivery was a really great job, but Hospice is real Ministry".

Hospice nursing is different from the nursing home experience. But I do have to ask if you think she is of the quality which indicates that she is the cheapest labor which can be gotten away with. The follow up question is if she was capable of doing other jobs in health care, or if she was not able to cut it.

If she is capable and able to cut it in other segments of health care, then she is a counter example to your earlier post as well as Sparko's slanderous allegations. And she is a counter example which you are familiar with. You apparently do not inform the nursing home workers of your high opinion of their quality as care givers, but I wonder if you let your opinions be known to your congregation.

Is being a nursing home care giver also a calling? Is nursing home work also a ministry? Many patients stay in the home for years, and there is a relationship built up between the resident and caregiver. Man is a social animal, he was created that way. But human life is burdensome and problematic sometimes ate the end of life as well as at the beginning. Often it is the caregiver who has the closest relationship with the elderly.

[mossrose]

Hospice nursing is different from the nursing home experience. But I do have to ask if you think she is of the quality which indicates that she is the cheapest labor which can be gotten away with. The follow up question is if she was capable of doing other jobs in health care, or if she was not able to cut it.

If she is capable and able to cut it in other segments of health care, then she is a counter example to your earlier post as well as Sparko's slanderous allegations. And she is a counter example which you are familiar with. You apparently do not inform the nursing home workers of your high opinion of their quality as care givers, but I wonder if you let your opinions be known to your congregation.

Is being a nursing home care giver also a calling? Is nursing home work also a ministry? Many patients stay in the home for years, and there is a relationship built up between the resident and caregiver. Man is a social animal, he was created that way. But human life is burdensome and problematic sometimes ate the end of life as well as at the beginning. Often it is the caregiver who has the closest relationship with the elderly.

Why are you insisting on digressing so far from the topic of this thread? Are you just so consumed with some kind of hatred for the Christians on this site that everything you post has to be some kind of derogatory thing against us in general and CP and, now, Sparky?

You know that all the crap you are saying has nothing to do with the op. If I were demi I would have kicked you out of here days ago.

[simplicio]

Why are you insisting on digressing so far from the topic of this thread? Are you just so consumed with some kind of hatred for the Christians on this site that everything you post has to be some kind of derogatory thing against us in general and CP and, now, Sparky?

You know that all the crap you are saying has nothing to do with the op. If I were demi I would have kicked you out of here days ago.

Sparko and CP both made some pretty slanderous broad brush comments about those working in homes. Which is surprising since CP has a daughter working in a segmment which is very similar to the long term care, but with important differences.

Get too many incontinent people in one place, and it is very hard to get rid of the smell. They "stinketh". That is the way G-d designed man.

Is it unrelated to the OP? On the contrary, the same things which make nursing homes such "horrible" places also make infection control so difficult. And many homes today in the midst of the pandemic are doing excellent work, clamping down on infection control and keeping infectious cases down. Other homes are seeing the same things which happened on Diamond Princess and the TR aircraft carrier: Once the contagion takes a foothold, it spreads like wildfire.

Why do you attribute my position to hatred, but the positions of posters, Christian posters, as not hatred?

[Cow Poke]

Why are you insisting on digressing so far from the topic of this thread? Are you just so consumed with some kind of hatred for the Christians on this site that everything you post has to be some kind of derogatory thing against us in general and CP and, now, Sparky?

You know that all the crap you are saying has nothing to do with the op. If I were demi I would have kicked you out of here days ago.

I think he has ZERO clue how "callings" work -- we trust the Holy Spirit, who gifts us as HE WILL -- to call us to the work for which He has gifted us.

I won't be responding to any more of this incredibly dishonest and mean-spirited perversion of what I said or what I believe.