Donald Trump and the Coronavirus

[lilpixieofterror]

And carpe's mantra seems to be "I love the straw man fallacy."

[Mountain Man]

For that matter, Obama and his sycophants are trying to take credit for things Trump has done!

[carpedm9587]

For that matter, Obama and his sycophants are trying to take credit for things Trump has done!

Now THAT is funny...

[Sparko]

I think Trump is starting to open up the country at the right time. Cracks are starting to show with the lockdown. Governors are getting too big for their britches and people are starting to rebel. There are more and more problems with the supply chain. It's getting to the point where farmers are not being able to get things to the processing plants and stores. Meat packing plants are starting to have problems.

Of course everyone who is now screaming that he is doing it too early will be the ones complaining the he should have done it much earlier, or not locked down the country in the first place. That's my prediction.

[Mountain Man]

Now THAT is funny...

Remember last year when the "experts" was predicting that the Trump economy was headed for collapse? The media gleefully promoted tales of economic doom and gloom, but when it didn't happen, all of a sudden they were talking about the robustness of the Obama economy. It was pretty darn hilarious!

[carpedm9587]

Remember last year when the "experts" was predicting that the Trump economy was headed for collapse? The media gleefully promoted tales of economic doom and gloom, but when it didn't happen, all of a sudden they were talking about the robustness of the Obama economy. It was pretty darn hilarious!

Actually - I don't remember "the experts" predicting such an outcome, though I have no doubt on or two might have. What I saw most economists saying was that Trump's tax cut was like a shot of nitrous oxide to a car or a sugar high to a child - it would briefly goose the economy and then the economy would revert to norm. That is pretty much exactly what happened.

As for the "Trump" economy vs. the Obama economy, most rational people don't try to argue with the actual data. The data shows that most of the economic gains we had since the beginning of the Great Recession happened under Obama. Unemployment came within one percentage point of a record low under Obama, but Trump takes the credit because that last percentage point happened under his administration, even though the previous 5 percentage points happened under the Obama administration. The first 3.5 years of Trump's term saw an average 2.5% rise in GDP. That is almost exactly the number for the first 3.5 years of Obama's second term. Obama started with an astronomically high deficit in 2009 and, while achieving those things, cut the deficit almost every year of his presidency (there was a slight uptick at the end). Trump achieved his "nitrous/sugar-high" at the cost of $1T deficits in an otherwise healthy economy and the deficit has risen year over year under his watch.

I realize you'll most likely take this list and dismiss it with another "Gish Gallop." That has become your new mantra, apparently. But they are the facts - and it is kind of hard to dispute cold hard data and remain intellectually honest. Most of the Trump economy is due to Obama's work - not Trump's. But the man does like to take credit. After all, his mantra is:

"The buck stops there - but all credit comes to me."

[carpedm9587]

So new cases and deaths have not started on their downward slide, yet. And rural states are beginning to see a spike, especially those with no shelter-at-home order. But still Trump encourages some states to "open immediately."

And note the language. Mr. Trump has not let go of his "I call the shots." and "I have absolute authority." His statements are clear:

"Governors will be empowered..." (by whom, I wonder? Is he aware that the governors already have the power for matters that lie within their states?)
"If states want to remain shut down, we will allow them to do that." (I wonder if "we" meant the administration, or maybe the "royal" we? Does he realize they don't need his permission for this?)

The man is "a piece of work."

[Mountain Man]

Let's see what Trump does. If he tries to sue governors who don't follow the task force's recommendations, or sends in the US military to force states to "reopen", then I'll agree with you that there's a problem. Until then...

[shunyadragon]

For that matter, Obama and his sycophants are trying to take credit for things Trump has done!

Oh I do not think anyone would want to take credit for what Trump has done outside his loyal followers.

[shunyadragon]

Let's see what Trump does. If he tries to sue governors who don't follow the task force's recommendations, or sends in the US military to force states to "reopen", then I'll agree with you that there's a problem. Until then...

Trump has already been told that his demands were unconstitutional, and his only recourse was to cooperate with the governors.

[simplicio]

I think Trump is starting to open up the country at the right time. Cracks are starting to show with the lockdown. Governors are getting too big for their britches and people are starting to rebel. There are more and more problems with the supply chain. It's getting to the point where farmers are not being able to get things to the processing plants and stores. Meat packing plants are starting to have problems.

Of course everyone who is now screaming that he is doing it too early will be the ones complaining the he should have done it much earlier, or not locked down the country in the first place. That's my prediction.

Is it Trump which is reopening the country?

[carpedm9587]

Let's see what Trump does. If he tries to sue governors who don't follow the task force's recommendations, or sends in the US military to force states to "reopen", then I'll agree with you that there's a problem. Until then...

What you fail to appreciate, MM, and on a regular basis, is that the words of the president of the United States are an action. They motivate. They set example. They can intimidate. They are used to justify actions. With the power of the executive office comes responsibility. Every time Trump lies, he communicates "it's OK to lie." Every time he bullies and name-calls, he communicates "it's OK to bully and name call." Every time he vindictively reacts to a criticism, he communicates "nobody should have to accept criticism and it's OK to attack and get even if you receive some." This is intrinsic to the office and pretty much always has been.

This is why it will take us years, if not decades, to undo the harm this one man has caused in 3+ years of holding office. My greatest concern, should he be returned to office in November, is that whatever governor the need to win re-election had on his words and actions in the past 3+ years will disappear entirely, and the damage will escalate for another 4 years. That is the primary reason this man needs to be removed from office, IMO.

ETA: We should never accept from people in office behavior we would not permit in our children. Ask yourself, if my son lied - would I say "that's OK?" or would I call them on it. If my son starts referring to their schoolmates with disparaging nicknames "Sleepy Joe," and "Crooked Hillary" and so forth, do you clap them on the back and say "well done!" or do you call them on it? If you son sets off on a campaign of getting even with anyone that says something he doesn't like, especially personal criticism, do you say "you go, son!" or do you explain the importance of critical feedback? When your son makes every statement about how great he is, do you say, "yes indeed - you ARE awesome," or do you suggest that perhaps they should loo around for others to praise? No president is expected to be perfect - but there is "imperfect" and there is "fatally flawed." Mr. Trump is about as flawed as they come, excepting only "doing physical violence" (though he has encouraged it in others).

[carpedm9587]

I have to admit to having mixed feelings about this ad:

Part of me is cheering because Trump has been trying to deflect blame and this shifts the blame back. Part of me is shaking my head because it is shifting the blame in a place that I think is mostly blameless due to the timing (i.e., before the first community transmission).

ETA: On the other hand - Trump WAS getting intel briefs from mid/early January warning him that China was not giving the straight scoop on the situation. True to form, he ignored them. So maybe this is justice after all...

[Cow Poke]

I have to admit to having mixed feelings about this ad:

Part of me is cheering because Trump has been trying to deflect blame and this shifts the blame back. Part of me is shaking my head because it is shifting the blame in a place that I think is mostly blameless due to the timing (i.e., before the first community transmission).

ETA: On the other hand - Trump WAS getting intel briefs from mid/early January warning him that China was not giving the straight scoop on the situation. True to form, he ignored them. So maybe this is justice after all...

There's a whole lot of political oneupsmanship going around, Carpe --- like Cuomo starting out by blasting Trump for his handling of this, then, apparently, realizing he depends on Trump for aid, kisses his butt, and when Trump gives him what he asked for, he has the hardest time just simply saying thankyou.

But, then again, I think he's busy running for the Dem nomination.

[Mountain Man]

Trump has already been told that his demands were unconstitutional, and his only recourse was to cooperate with the governors.

Okay... and what has Trump actually done?