Does Socialism align with Scripture?

[RumTumTugger]

What else would you expect a greedy multi-millionaire religious con man to argue. At least he had to admit that the early church practised a form of socialism.

JimL the church practiced, Charity the voluntary act of giving of yourself to help others in need. Not getting the Government to forcefully take from others to give to those who won't work.

[JimL]

JimL the church practiced, Charity the voluntary act of giving of yourself to help others in need. Not getting the Government to forcefully take from others to give to those who won't work.

In a democracy you get to choose the kind of governance you want. You get to choose whether people are as importantant to you as roads and bridges. You may not get your wish, but you get to make that choice.

[Watermelon]

I thought the parable with the talents was meant to represent Gods grace. Those who have received Gods grace need to spread that grace to others. Those that keep that grace hidden had never deserved or had Gods grace at all.

So ideally, what services should the government provide if any?

[simplicio]

Covid-19 might teach you the benefits of socialised health care. There is no management without information.

How is socialized health care doing in China?

Is there any "free market" and private sector solution to an epidemic?

The Chinese built hospitals to meet the need with lightening speed. And yes, they also used oppressive measure to meet political needs. But the fact remains that they did provide an immediate and effective response; their model is being studied by the west, the strengths and weaknesses.

Can the US provide an effective response while maintaining things like liberties?

[simplicio]

What else would you expect a greedy multi-millionaire religious con man to argue. At least he had to admit that the early church practised a form of socialism.

Phhht! Adam's Smith's invisible hand works to allocate resources, effectively divining real value. Bob Russel has a strong balance sheet because he is good..................How strong was a balance sheet Jesus of Nazareth had?

[simplicio]

This is a DEBATE site, dude.

Oh, really? When did you come to that conclusion? Duh!

[JimL]

Phhht! Adam's Smith's invisible hand works to allocate resources, effectively divining real value. Bob Russel has a strong balance sheet because he is good..................How strong was a balance sheet Jesus of Nazareth had?

I wonder if the biblical Jesus would opt for a government that required taxes to assist and make livable the lives of those in need or one that would ignore the plight of the less fortunate. I think the miracle healer would probably opt for universal healthcare.

[rogue06]

I wonder if the biblical Jesus would opt for a government that required taxes to assist and make livable the lives of those in need or one that would ignore the plight of the less fortunate. I think the miracle healer would probably opt for universal healthcare.

You are creating a false choice.

Christ told us what to do. Why did you deliberately leave that out?

[firstfloor]

How is socialized health care doing in China?

[Starlight]

And Jesus never advocated taking away from the rich because they had too much. He advocated those that had much to share with others.

The bible doesn't advocate for that distinction, it's something you're bringing to it and reading into it. There's pretty much nothing in the bible about the comparative value of free and voluntary action verses forced-to-do-it.

Socialism is based on envy.

No. You seem to really believe that, but it's just plain straight out not true.

The vast majority of people I have encountered who advocate for socialist or socialist principles do so because they genuinely care about the plight of those in need. It's based on love and compassion. It's literally that simple.

Not being forced to by greedy people who feel like they should have what others have earned.

You all seem really really concerned about the idea that someone might take your money from you, and seem obsessed that it's yours. The traits that come across clearly from you making this the focus of your concerns are greed, selfishness, and love of money. The greed I see here in your post and over and over again among the conservatives in this forum is the selfish love of your own money. Capitalism, is, of course, famously all about greed and tends toward the view that 'greed is good'. Accusing socialists of being greedy seems to me to be projection.

As a socialist I don't want your money or think I should have it. I think the excess wealth of the rich should go to the poor, which isn't me. There's no greed on my part involved. It's a concern for the poor, for the needy, and to right injustices that's the motivation.

[Starlight]

With Ananias and Saphira, we learn they did not have to sell their land and throw all the money into the Christian community. They did not have to participate in this.

They were killed for their failure to obey the rules of giving all they had. Pretty sure that wasn't voluntary, and is a rather extreme level of force!

I don't remember where Acts 2 says you are killed or arrested if you don't conform to this 'socialism'

Well Ananias and Saphira are in Acts 5. You're aware they were killed for not conforming?

Well Acts 2 isn't socialism

Sparko, Acts 2 clearly describes a commune in which finances are shared. Such communes are a type of socialism, by definition, and have been pretty much the prototypical type of socialism since even before Karl Marx. Have a read about it. The early socialists were quite enthusiastic about communes, especially after the temporary success of the Paris Commune.

There are, of course, quite a number of types of socialism. Karl Marx spent much of his writings telling other socialists that their own versions of socialism were stupid, rather more in fact than he spent telling anyone what his own ideal version of socialism was - if he even had one. If all you mean is "Acts 2 doesn't match to my own idea of 'socialism'"... okay, perhaps your mental model needs revising. As someone with democratic socialist leanings I'm not hugely fussed on communes myself and they don't feature much or at all in my own preferred version of socialism, but they are absolutely and definitely a version of socialism whether I like them or not.

[Starlight]

Christ told us what to do. Why did you deliberately leave that out?

Christ: "Sell everything you own and give to the poor" (Mat 19:21 / Luke 18:22)

Money, wealth, and poverty is together pretty close to the biggest topic of Jesus' teachings as recorded in the gospels. He certainly told you what to do, indeed, and spent a lot of his time on it. Guess he thought it was important.

He followed up the above verse with the comment: "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God. Indeed, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." (Matthew 19:24 / Luke 18:24-25). Unsurprisingly, the one time he tells a story about someone being in hell and someone else being in heaven, the difference is that the man in hell was rich during his life and the one in heaven was poor (Luke 16:19-31). Likewise the one time he gives a detailed depiction of the final judgment, the criteria he lists for the decision as to whether the person goes to heaven or hell are whether they helped the poor and needy or not (Mat 25:31-46).

Going through all the many and various other commandments and encouragements and teachings Jesus gave on the topic of wealth and sharing it with the poor, would take a John Reece length thread of posts. Suffice it to say that Jesus seemed to think money being transferred from the rich who had excess to the poor and those in need, was utterly crucial, and that one's afterlife depended on it.

Paul, likewise, shows a strong interest in this topic, apparently dedicating a lot of his time and effort into collecting money from the richer churches to redistribute to the poorer ones. He writes that when he met Peter and other apostles, they "asked only one thing, that we remember the poor, which was actually what I was eager to do" (Gal 2:10). Each church gave according to its ability and the money was redistributed to others according to their need. Sound familiar?

[seer]

And how is socialized health care doing in Italy? And why are they any better than our system?

[NorrinRadd]

Your question was not "Does government enforced socialism align with scripture?"
Your question was "Does socialism align with scripture?", and as you can plainly see from Acts 2:44-45 it does. How you feel about that is a different story altogether and I really don't care how you feel about it.

If it's not "government enforced," it's not Socialism.

[simplicio]

..................

The vast majority of people I have encountered who advocate for socialist or socialist principles do so because they genuinely care about the plight of those in need. It's based on love and compassion. It's literally that simple.

Dorothy Day! (Maybe someday we'll say "St Dorothy, pray for us")

You all seem really really concerned about the idea that someone might take your money from you, and seem obsessed that it's yours. The traits that come across clearly from you making this the focus of your concerns are greed, selfishness, and love of money. The greed I see here in your post and over and over again among the conservatives in this forum is the selfish love of your own money. Capitalism, is, of course, famously all about greed and tends toward the view that 'greed is good'. Accusing socialists of being greedy seems to me to be projection.
.

What? An atheist (and a commie to boot) pointing out the concept that everything we have is not ours......but is really the Lord's, we are just here for a while. If only I could convince you of that second part, we could fix that whole atheist thing